In response to Stephen Hawking's quip, "Religion is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," apologist John Lennox said, "And atheism is a fairy story for those afraid of the light."
Do atheists fear that light aka God? I would answer no assuming I knew atheists to be completely sensible and rational in their rejection of theism, but they very often aren't sensible and rational in their unbelief. In this forum, for example, an atheist said he lost his belief in God when he realized that there are different religions. When I tried to explain to him that those conflicting faiths can be explained as some of them getting a real God wrong, well, it did me no good! It's simply illogical to conclude that God doesn't exist because some people disagree about him. His atheism is obviously based on faulty logic. What's odd about these cases involving atheists using poor reasoning to reject God is that those atheists seem quite reasonable otherwise. My guess is that they fear God and wish that he doesn't exist. Atheism is for them a sanctuary from theism and a hope that reality harbors no scary God.
Are atheists afraid of God?
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #261I see that the persecution of atheists is still being reported.brunumb wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:21 pmNow that's an ad hominem if ever there was one.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:33 pm When I composed the OP, I assumed that the other members are intelligent enough to understand not to take the question for debate too literally.
Anyway, what I posted isn't an ad hominem argument because it isn't an argument, and neither is it abuse. An ad hominem is an argument that attacks "the man" rather than his argument. The character of the man is irrelevant in most debates, and so attacking his character in such debates gets you nowhere in disproving his case. It's important to understand that simply criticizing or accusing people of wrongdoing is not necessarily illogical. If it was, then criticizing the inquisition for torturing people would be illogical.
I will need to teach the other members here about logical fallacies because they keep getting them wrong.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #262I'm not sure what you mean. Can you explain?Diagoras wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:51 pmPerhaps others feel the bar was set rather low.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:33 pm I feel good about the debate and that I've successfully argued that some atheists at some times can be afraid of God.
I saw no need to explain how literally to take the question for debate when I composed the OP. I thought I made myself clear in the OP.Would it have been more helpful to state the level of 'literalness' up front, perhaps? Thus removing the need to make assumptions.Paul of Tarsus wrote:When I composed the OP, I assumed that the other members are intelligent enough to understand not to take the question for debate too literally.
Can you conceive of a way in which you might have contributed to the problem?Paul of Tarsus wrote:I think the real trouble was their willful reluctance to answer the question for debate directly and sensibly.
I see I'm being placed on trial charged with the crime of aggressively arguing my position on the issue. So yes, my doing so may have caused some of those who disagreed with me to get upset. People hate to be proved wrong, and I think that's where the "problem" started. When people realize that they're losing a debate, they will often resort to playing the hurt-feelings card and start complaining that they're being treated cruelly. If that doesn't work, then they beat a hasty retreat leaving the debate without conceding defeat.
Debaters are being asked to be intelligent enough to spot that the question's 'not too literal', but then to answer directly and sensibly. My impression is of slightly mixed messages there.
I didn't intend any mixed messages, and I'm not sure what you're talking about.
I didn't post any straw-man arguments although I was falsely accused of doing so by a person who has little idea of what a straw-man argument is.Then sincerely answer me this: Why do you put up so many straw man arguments?Paul of Tarsus wrote:Why would anybody fear being trapped by a question? If a person is honest and sensible and innocent, then they cannot be trapped by sincerely answering a question. Truth can only trap the guilty.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #263Certainly. I’m calling it as ‘low-hanging fruit’.
The question for debate as stated in the thread title can really only be answered: ‘Yes’/‘No’/‘Perhaps sometimes’. Either a Yes or a No would be answering the general case: much more difficult, as either is easily falsifiable by a single counter-argument. Finding one such example as you have done really only answers the question, “Perhaps, sometimes”, which is a lot easier.
And I thought my suggestions for reframing the debate might be useful. You did in fact say “Thanks for the advice” in reply. I’m not accusing you of anything here - simply offering thoughts on how future debates on the topic might be improved. Speaking of accusations...Paul of Tarsus wrote:I thought I made myself clear in the OP.
Have I accused you of aggression? I don’t think so. There’s no crime here, and yes - I understand concepts like hyperbole and exaggeration for effect. But I disagree with how the debate is affecting others if you’re including me when you say:Paul of Tarsus wrote:I see I'm being placed on trial charged with the crime of aggressively arguing my position on the issue.
I can assure you that I don’t feel upset.Paul of Tarsus wrote:So yes, my doing so may have caused some of those who disagreed with me to get upset.
Has that happened here? I’m not seeing it. The main ‘complaints’ being levelled at you (which is in itself an overly emotive term for debate tactics) are not related to people’s feelings in any way. I’m sure no-one feels you are acting ‘cruelly’.Paul of Tarsus wrote:When people realize that they're losing a debate, they will often resort to playing the hurt-feelings card and start complaining that they're being treated cruelly.
I meant to write, “Have you stopped posting straw man arguments?” instead - kind of like the well-known “stopped beating your wife?” accusation. My point being to illustrate an example of being ‘trapped by a question’ that doesn’t depend upon one’s guilt or innocence.Paul of Tarsus wrote:I didn't post any straw-man arguments although I was falsely accused of doing so by a person who has little idea of what a straw-man argument is.
So, while it wasn’t meant as an accusation, I can see how it might easily come across as one. I apologise for that.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #264The demon spirits, within many men, both atheists and "Christian", are afraid of the coming judgment (Joel 2:31-Joel 3:2), during the "day of the Lord", such as the great tribulation (Mt 24). That is why you see many "atheist"/Marxist, trying to get rid of the police. They somehow link police with judgment/justice. The coming judgment does not require police to pass judgment, and the fewer the police, the greater the judgment/disaster. The judgment will come from God. They can deny the existence of God, or create god in their own image, but they can't deny the weight of the impending coming doom.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:53 pmAre atheists afraid of God?2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:05 pmThere are many gods, but as the 1st commandment says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me". The pagan gods are derived from the "men of renown", per Genesis, who were the product of "heavenly watchers" and the daughters of Men (Enoch) & (Genesis). The men of renown died, but their demon spirits live on, such as happened in the false prophet and the beast (Rev 16:13). The present day mayhem is probably the result of the demons seeing their near coming demise, which occurs at the beginning of the millennium. (Rev 20:1-3)Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:33 pm In response to Stephen Hawking's quip, "Religion is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," apologist John Lennox said, "And atheism is a fairy story for those afraid of the light."
Do atheists fear that light aka God? I would answer no assuming I knew atheists to be completely sensible and rational in their rejection of theism, but they very often aren't sensible and rational in their unbelief. In this forum, for example, an atheist said he lost his belief in God when he realized that there are different religions. When I tried to explain to him that those conflicting faiths can be explained as some of them getting a real God wrong, well, it did me no good! It's simply illogical to conclude that God doesn't exist because some people disagree about him. His atheism is obviously based on faulty logic. What's odd about these cases involving atheists using poor reasoning to reject God is that those atheists seem quite reasonable otherwise. My guess is that they fear God and wish that he doesn't exist. Atheism is for them a sanctuary from theism and a hope that reality harbors no scary God.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #265[Replying to 2ndpillar2 in post #265]
The demon spirits, within many men, both atheists and "Christian", are afraid of the coming judgment (Joel 2:31-Joel 3:2), during the "day of the Lord", such as the great tribulation (Mt 24). That is why you see many "atheist"/Marxist, trying to get rid of the police. They somehow link police with judgment/justice. The coming judgment does not require police to pass judgment, and the fewer the police, the greater the judgment/disaster. The judgment will come from God. They can deny the existence of God, or create god in their own image, but they can't deny the weight of the impending coming doom.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #2662ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 4:59 pmThe demon spirits, within many men, both atheists and "Christian", are afraid of the coming judgment (Joel 2:31-Joel 3:2), during the "day of the Lord", such as the great tribulation (Mt 24).
Then your answer to the question for debate is no, atheists are not afraid of God; only the demons in them are afraid of God. God's judgment is very scary and frightens devils.
You are referring to black people who want to defund the police. You see those black people as communists who wish to get away with their crimes by getting rid of the police. Do you realize that many black people are Christians and have suffered for a long time as victims of police brutality?That is why you see many "atheist"/Marxist, trying to get rid of the police. They somehow link police with judgment/justice.
The coming judgment does not require police to pass judgment, and the fewer the police, the greater the judgment/disaster. The judgment will come from God.
Why is God's judgment affected by the number of police if God doesn't need the police?
A lot of people don't believe in doomsday. I am one of them. I see no reason why God would want to hurt people, but I know that many people are vengeful and want their hated enemies to suffer. So I conclude that people have made up a judgment of God.They can deny the existence of God, or create god in their own image, but they can't deny the weight of the impending coming doom.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #267Antifa, a compilation of many peoples, includes a huge portion of white millennium losers, as shown by those arrested in Portland and Seattle, and is not a "black" organization. They believe in violence against those they disagree with, which apparently includes the police. Like the fascist Nazis black shirts, they burn books and subvert debate. As for the judgments of God, those include Sodom and Gomorrah, the great flood, the many sackings of Jerusalem, all because of the corruptions of man. The next "great tribulation" will include radiation fallout (Zechariah 14:12), the great earthquake, with the falling of the cities of the nations, islands sinking, and mountains flattened (Rev 16:18-19). When the cities "fall", the greatest threat to life will be anarchy, which is basically cities without policing of the mob. It will be much like what one sees in Seattle and Portland. Burning businesses and looting. As for BLM, an organization started by 3 black homosexual women from California, they are professionally trained Marxist, whose view is to undermine family, religion, Capitalism, and order. Their starting point is to defund the police so they can run wild. In general, the majority of blacks want more police not less, and the majority support religion, and family. The demon possessed, have no rest, see their end, and fight against the wind. Like the "Christians", who hang unto the false prophets of Mt 7:13-23, they will all meet their end (Zech 11:9) & (Rev 20:3), and eat each others flesh. What they believe or not, their end is coming. It is called the "end of the age", and the angels will gather the lawless and cast them into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:40-42).Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 7:06 pm2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 4:59 pmThe demon spirits, within many men, both atheists and "Christian", are afraid of the coming judgment (Joel 2:31-Joel 3:2), during the "day of the Lord", such as the great tribulation (Mt 24).
Then your answer to the question for debate is no, atheists are not afraid of God; only the demons in them are afraid of God. God's judgment is very scary and frightens devils.
You are referring to black people who want to defund the police. You see those black people as communists who wish to get away with their crimes by getting rid of the police. Do you realize that many black people are Christians and have suffered for a long time as victims of police brutality?That is why you see many "atheist"/Marxist, trying to get rid of the police. They somehow link police with judgment/justice.
The coming judgment does not require police to pass judgment, and the fewer the police, the greater the judgment/disaster. The judgment will come from God.
Why is God's judgment affected by the number of police if God doesn't need the police?
A lot of people don't believe in doomsday. I am one of them. I see no reason why God would want to hurt people, but I know that many people are vengeful and want their hated enemies to suffer. So I conclude that people have made up a judgment of God.They can deny the existence of God, or create god in their own image, but they can't deny the weight of the impending coming doom.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #268All this sounds very scary and it would be if there were any reason to believe any of it has any basis in reality. Given that there isn't, there is the same number of reasons to fear this as there is to fear god/gods. Zero.2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 3:04 am The next "great tribulation" will include radiation fallout (Zechariah 14:12), the great earthquake, with the falling of the cities of the nations, islands sinking, and mountains flattened (Rev 16:18-19). When the cities "fall", the greatest threat to life will be anarchy, which is basically cities without policing of the mob. It will be much like what one sees in Seattle and Portland. Burning businesses and looting. As for BLM, an organization started by 3 black homosexual women from California, they are professionally trained Marxist, whose view is to undermine family, religion, Capitalism, and order. Their starting point is to defund the police so they can run wild. In general, the majority of blacks want more police not less, and the majority support religion, and family. The demon possessed, have no rest, see their end, and fight against the wind. Like the "Christians", who hang unto the false prophets of Mt 7:13-23, they will all meet their end (Zech 11:9) & (Rev 20:3), and eat each others flesh. What they believe or not, their end is coming. It is called the "end of the age", and the angels will gather the lawless and cast them into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:40-42).
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #269Maybe you should look to science. The California scientist predict a 99% chance of a killer earthquake in Southern California within the next 30 years. It is now 100 years over due, and the mechanics involved are expected to be the same as for the 1906 San Francisco earthquake. The Cascadia vault, which produced the super volcano located under Old Faithful, is also over due, along with the Yellowstone super volcano is over due for its heave. As for the middle east, and it's link to nuclear weapons, just look to Biden and his negotiations with Iran. Iran says they can wipe out Israel in one day. The Russians have produced a super EMP bomb. The verse from Zechariah 14:12 is duplicated in the book "Hiroshima", with respect to the effects of the nuclear bomb affects. As for the world situation, China has a navy 15% larger than the US, and is trying to intimidate its neighbors, who have decided to fight back. China threatens to take over Taiwan, yet Taiwan is buying US weapons. China is threatening Australia, and now Australia is buying US weapons and creating relationships with New Zealand, Canada, India, and Britain to try in contain China. China is now suffering from floods, and plagues, and has internal stability problems. Japan has rewritten their constitution to allow for offensive weapons to be used against China. Russia is threatening to invade the Ukraine, and the US has sent forces into the area. As for gods, you are your own god, and of course, like the gods before you, like Caesar, you will die, but with case of Caesar, his demon spirit in the form of dictators and Czars/Kaisers/Fuhrers, lives on. You are looking at economic, political, and natural turmoil, and won't know what hits you when it all falls from the sky. On the other hand, those prepared, are told to simply shut their doors, and let the turmoil pass them by (Is 26:20). When events over take you, you will not even be able to kill yourself (Rev 9:6).Tcg wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 8:04 pmAll this sounds very scary and it would be if there were any reason to believe any of it has any basis in reality. Given that there isn't, there is the same number of reasons to fear this as there is to fear god/gods. Zero.2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 3:04 am The next "great tribulation" will include radiation fallout (Zechariah 14:12), the great earthquake, with the falling of the cities of the nations, islands sinking, and mountains flattened (Rev 16:18-19). When the cities "fall", the greatest threat to life will be anarchy, which is basically cities without policing of the mob. It will be much like what one sees in Seattle and Portland. Burning businesses and looting. As for BLM, an organization started by 3 black homosexual women from California, they are professionally trained Marxist, whose view is to undermine family, religion, Capitalism, and order. Their starting point is to defund the police so they can run wild. In general, the majority of blacks want more police not less, and the majority support religion, and family. The demon possessed, have no rest, see their end, and fight against the wind. Like the "Christians", who hang unto the false prophets of Mt 7:13-23, they will all meet their end (Zech 11:9) & (Rev 20:3), and eat each others flesh. What they believe or not, their end is coming. It is called the "end of the age", and the angels will gather the lawless and cast them into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:40-42).
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #270OK. Thank you.2ndpillar2 wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 10:13 amMaybe you should look to science.
[A whole bunch of not science]
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