In response to Stephen Hawking's quip, "Religion is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," apologist John Lennox said, "And atheism is a fairy story for those afraid of the light."
Do atheists fear that light aka God? I would answer no assuming I knew atheists to be completely sensible and rational in their rejection of theism, but they very often aren't sensible and rational in their unbelief. In this forum, for example, an atheist said he lost his belief in God when he realized that there are different religions. When I tried to explain to him that those conflicting faiths can be explained as some of them getting a real God wrong, well, it did me no good! It's simply illogical to conclude that God doesn't exist because some people disagree about him. His atheism is obviously based on faulty logic. What's odd about these cases involving atheists using poor reasoning to reject God is that those atheists seem quite reasonable otherwise. My guess is that they fear God and wish that he doesn't exist. Atheism is for them a sanctuary from theism and a hope that reality harbors no scary God.
Are atheists afraid of God?
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #81I think some atheists do fear God's judgment. There is no judgment to fear if there is no God. Hence, atheism.We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:11 am If atheists are afraid of God now, wait til judgement day.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #82[Replying to benchwarmer in post #81]
This is reasonable. It also shows that those who are in {a} are farsighted - and not easily frightened by stories.
This is reasonable. It also shows that those who are in {a} are farsighted - and not easily frightened by stories.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #83Perhaps they fear Satan's judgment rather than Gods's? He is referred to after all as "The Accuser."Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:56 pmI think some atheists do fear God's judgment. There is no judgment to fear if there is no God. Hence, atheism.We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:11 am If atheists are afraid of God now, wait til judgement day.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #84[Replying to benchwarmer in post #81]
Well, let me put it to you this way, benchwarmer...
1. Fear now, AND fear later..
or
2. Don't fear now, BUT fear later.
The common denominator in both options; fear.
Take your pick.
Well, let me put it to you this way, benchwarmer...
1. Fear now, AND fear later..
or
2. Don't fear now, BUT fear later.
The common denominator in both options; fear.
Take your pick.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #85If God is angry and is "seeking" you, I bet your own shadow will want to walk across the street from you.Dimmesdale wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:03 pmPerhaps they fear Satan's judgment rather than Gods's? He is referred to after all as "The Accuser."Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:56 pmI think some atheists do fear God's judgment. There is no judgment to fear if there is no God. Hence, atheism.We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:11 am If atheists are afraid of God now, wait til judgement day.
There is no wrath like that of the Almighty.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #86I pick neither. i.e. no fear. The fact that you think there has to be fear involved tells me your religion has nothing for me.We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:25 pm [Replying to benchwarmer in post #81]
Well, let me put it to you this way, benchwarmer...
1. Fear now, AND fear later..
or
2. Don't fear now, BUT fear later.
The common denominator in both options; fear.
Take your pick.
If there is a god and it is reasonable and actually caring, then I have nothing to fear. If it wanted me to be convinced of it's presence, surely it would have supplied ME with the evidence I require. It would not be my fault I am currently unconvinced, but it's fault. Torturing me for being intellectually honest seems to be in contradiction to a reasonable, loving god.
On the other hand, if this god is only interested in games and tortures those who picked wrong on bad information, then all bets are off and we are all in trouble.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #87That wasn't an option. But ok, fine; make "no fear" an option, and take your hell sentence with a fearless face.benchwarmer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:44 pm I pick neither. i.e. no fear. The fact that you think there has to be fear involved tells me your religion has nothing for me.
The fact that you exist, in a universe which also exist.....those two facts should be enough to convince any reasonable human being of a Creator.benchwarmer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:44 pm If there is a god and it is reasonable and actually caring, then I have nothing to fear. If it wanted me to be convinced of it's presence, surely it would have supplied ME with the evidence I require.
The fact that it doesn't seems to be the flaw of the unreasonable person, and not the Creator.
That will be a conversation between you and God. I don't know what will happen, but my guess is that on judgement day, God will "play the tape" of every time the Holy Spirit tapped you on the shoulder, and the mere core of your being (spirit, consciousness) ignored the tap...time and time again.benchwarmer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:44 pm It would not be my fault I am currently unconvinced, but it's fault. Torturing me for being intellectually honest seems to be in contradiction to a reasonable, loving god.
Btw, since I am a Bible believing Christian, I can only go by what the Bible says...and the Bible says that God will show himself to those who earnestly seek him (Heb 11:6).
So, either you aren't earnestly seeking him, or when God took it upon himself to communicate with you, you ignored him.
I don't know which one it is, but neither is providing a helping hand in the matter.
We all should be in trouble....but there is a way, Jesus.benchwarmer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:44 pm On the other hand, if this god is only interested in games and tortures those who picked wrong on bad information, then all bets are off and we are all in trouble.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #88Nope, I stand by exactly what I said in post 47. In that post I gave clear connected reasons as to why I don't have any fear of God and, because of those reasons, I, personally, find it hard to understand why I should have any fear of God. Hopefully you now understand the important difference between 'don't' and 'can't'(which has been the main focus of this correspondence) which may help you in future to look more closely at the words you are responding to. If not, there is little more I can do to enlighten you so, as I see it, it becomes rather a pointless exercise.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:53 pmIf you now say you can readily understand that you can fear God even though you are an atheist, then why did you say earlier that you find it hard to understand how you can fear a God you don't believe in? Do you now understand how you can be afraid of God even though you are an atheist? I hope you do understand now, and I hope I helped you to understand.blackstart wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:37 amOf course it is possible that I am able to fear God therefore I would never use your words "Since you don't believe in God, then you conclude you cannot fear God".
So I see I'm getting my point across. Not only can atheists be afraid of God, but people in general can have conflicting thoughts and feelings. The human psyche is not perfect, and in particular it is not perfectly consistent. We should keep that fact in mind as we debate Christianity and apologetics.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #89The Old-Testament writers saw Satan as an accuser, perhaps most notably the writer of Job. I don't know if Satan would bother accusing atheists, though; he only accuses those who are righteous in God's eyes. According to Christian theology, unbelievers who won't repent are already among Satan's "winnings." If Satan accused an atheist, then he would be beating a dead horse, you might say. So God is ultimately the one we should fear.Dimmesdale wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:03 pmPerhaps they fear Satan's judgment rather than Gods's? He is referred to after all as "The Accuser."Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:56 pmI think some atheists do fear God's judgment. There is no judgment to fear if there is no God. Hence, atheism.We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:11 am If atheists are afraid of God now, wait til judgement day.
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Re: Are atheists afraid of God?
Post #90Please answer my question: If you now say you can readily understand that you can fear God even though you are an atheist, then why did you say earlier that you find it hard to understand how you can fear a God you don't believe in?blackstart wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:51 pmNope, I stand by exactly what I said in post 47. In that post I gave clear connected reasons as to why I don't have any fear of God and, because of those reasons, I, personally, find it hard to understand why I should have any fear of God. Hopefully you now understand the important difference between 'don't' and 'can't'(which has been the main focus of this correspondence) which may help you in future to look more closely at the words you are responding to. If not, there is little more I can do to enlighten you so, as I see it, it becomes rather a pointless exercise.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:53 pmIf you now say you can readily understand that you can fear God even though you are an atheist, then why did you say earlier that you find it hard to understand how you can fear a God you don't believe in? Do you now understand how you can be afraid of God even though you are an atheist? I hope you do understand now, and I hope I helped you to understand.blackstart wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:37 amOf course it is possible that I am able to fear God therefore I would never use your words "Since you don't believe in God, then you conclude you cannot fear God".
So I see I'm getting my point across. Not only can atheists be afraid of God, but people in general can have conflicting thoughts and feelings. The human psyche is not perfect, and in particular it is not perfectly consistent. We should keep that fact in mind as we debate Christianity and apologetics.
Contradicting oneself is nothing to be ashamed of. We all do it. We also change our minds about issues as we learn, and learning is something to be proud of.