Are atheists afraid of God?

[Paul of Tarsus]

In response to Stephen Hawking's quip, "Religion is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," apologist John Lennox said, "And atheism is a fairy story for those afraid of the light."

Do atheists fear that light aka God? I would answer no assuming I knew atheists to be completely sensible and rational in their rejection of theism, but they very often aren't sensible and rational in their unbelief. In this forum, for example, an atheist said he lost his belief in God when he realized that there are different religions. When I tried to explain to him that those conflicting faiths can be explained as some of them getting a real God wrong, well, it did me no good! It's simply illogical to conclude that God doesn't exist because some people disagree about him. His atheism is obviously based on faulty logic. What's odd about these cases involving atheists using poor reasoning to reject God is that those atheists seem quite reasonable otherwise. My guess is that they fear God and wish that he doesn't exist. Atheism is for them a sanctuary from theism and a hope that reality harbors no scary God.

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #240]

oic...so therefore one lacking or having "fear of death" cannot be an 'atheist'?

Nothing I have stated claims that or even suggests it.

Nonetheless, that would be true would it not? One can be an atheist and have a fear of death.

Well, that's a completely different question. Of course atheists can fear death.

We were discussing the fear of death versus the fear of God.

Precisely. That is why an atheist would not have a fear of gods and be called an 'atheist' but could have a fear of death and still be an atheist.

Sure.

Noting in the story suggests he had always been an atheist.

Perhaps I am mistaken that in subsequent to the story interaction with Paul of Tarsus, he wrote that the personality had always been an atheist...

Well, the story keeps changing doesn't it? I remember a tale where this suicidal "friend" had once been a Christian and in fact was "baby atheist" implying that they hadn't always been one. Of course one can be a Christian and an atheist, but it's hard to imagine a life long atheist, presumably an adult, being described as a "baby atheist."


Tcg


Edit - Here we go:

He was obviously terrified of death, but he has informed me that he also feared damnation for his apparently impending suicide. He was a "baby atheist" at that time having left Christianity only a year or two prior to his trying to take his own life.

This also includes the addition of the storyline that he "also feared damnation." As we have seen, that later was removed from the tale. Of course given that all of this is nothing but hearsay, it's hard to know which additions or subtractions, if any, are factual.

[Paul of Tarsus]

Let's examine the definition of atheist - "One who lacks belief in god/gods." One who has belief in god/gods doesn't lack belief in god/gods. I've explained this reality many times. I have no intention of "winning" an argument, but rather to present the facts involved. And I have.

So "no true atheist" can believe in God. The tact here is to arbitrarily choose a definition that defines what you want to believe is true as true. It's a textbook example of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

[William]

[Replying to Tcg in post #242]

Well just answering the OPQ at face value without all that additional guff...the answer has to be "no" because they wouldn't be atheists if they were afraid of any gods.

All the added guff is what complicated things but the question might as well have been rhetorical once the guff was added...

[William]

Let's examine the definition of atheist - "One who lacks belief in god/gods." One who has belief in god/gods doesn't lack belief in god/gods. I've explained this reality many times. I have no intention of "winning" an argument, but rather to present the facts involved. And I have.

So "no true atheist" can believe in God. The tact here is to arbitrarily choose a definition that defines what you want to believe is true as true. It's a textbook example of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

I am not sure that informal fallacy can be applied to atheism as a position. It can be applied to theists who claim that their particular beliefs are true while other theist beliefs which are different, are not true.

But I have not seen any atheists calling out other atheists for not being true atheists...

[Tcg]

Let's examine the definition of atheist - "One who lacks belief in god/gods." One who has belief in god/gods doesn't lack belief in god/gods. I've explained this reality many times. I have no intention of "winning" an argument, but rather to present the facts involved. And I have.

So "no true atheist" can believe in God. The tact here is to arbitrarily choose a definition that defines what you want to believe is true as true. It's a textbook example of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Not at all. If one were to claim that No True Scotsman can drink Budweiser (yuk), that would be an example of the No True Scotsman fallacy. If one were to claim that No True Scotsman was born in, reared, and lived their whole life in Amarillo Texas, we have a statement of fact.


Tcg

[William]

[Replying to Tcg in post #242]

He was obviously terrified of death, but he has informed me that he also feared damnation for his apparently impending suicide. He was a "baby atheist" at that time having left Christianity only a year or two prior to his trying to take his own life.

This also includes the addition of the storyline that he "also feared damnation." As we have seen, that later was removed from the tale. Of course given that all of this is nothing but hearsay, it's hard to know which additions or subtractions, if any, are factual.

It doesn't really matter if the example is factual or not, that information tends to point to the personality as not having given up his theism entirely...still having underlying beliefs in at least one scary god.

Having then been unable to peel away from that underlying belief, perhaps even in some way adversely affected by the struggle, suicide was attempted...and 'something happened' which made the personality restore his belief in the scary god and be forgiven for his slip into unbelief...which was never really lack of belief in the atheistic sense... "unbelief" being the position of "baby atheist's" - a position obviously made up to act as the box in which to put it in...since there is no such thing as the position of 'baby atheist' apart from the argument that some atheists think is legitimate - in that we are all born atheists as the default setting of the initial human position...but that is a different kind of 'baby' from that of the suicidal repentee

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #242]

He was obviously terrified of death, but he has informed me that he also feared damnation for his apparently impending suicide. He was a "baby atheist" at that time having left Christianity only a year or two prior to his trying to take his own life.

This also includes the addition of the storyline that he "also feared damnation." As we have seen, that later was removed from the tale. Of course given that all of this is nothing but hearsay, it's hard to know which additions or subtractions, if any, are factual.

It doesn't really matter if the example is factual or not, that information tends to point to the personality as not having given up his theism entirely...still having underlying beliefs in at least one scary god.

Would one cry out to a scary god for salvation? I suppose. But yes, the person described here is a theist.

Having then been unable to peel away from that underlying belief, perhaps even in some way adversely affected by the struggle, suicide was attempted...and 'something happened' which made the personality restore his belief in the scary god and be forgiven for his slip into unbelief...which was never really lack of belief in the atheistic sense... "unbelief" being the position of "baby atheist's" - a position obviously made up to act as the box in which to put it in...since there is no such thing as the position of 'baby atheist' apart from the argument that some atheists think is legitimate - in that we are all born atheists as the default setting of the initial human position...but that is a different kind of 'baby' from that of the suicidal repentee

Yes. It seems clear the term "baby atheist" here was used to describe one who was newly an atheist, not one born as an atheist.


Tcg

[Diagoras]

Back in Post #227:

But the actual frequency of atheists in foxholes doesn't really matter. As long as at least one atheist in a foxhole lost his atheism at least temporarily, then my point has been demonstrated to be true: Atheists can be and sometimes are afraid of God.

A bit dispiriting to see the debate hasn’t progressed very far from that point. If we’re supposedly debating the question which is the title of the thread (“Are atheists afraid of God?”), then it might have been helpful to state whether an answer in the general case was sufficient. Either that, or re-state the question, perhaps on one of these lines:

Q: Is it possible for an atheist to fear God?

Q: Does a fear of God (even temporarily) mean someone can’t be an atheist?

Q: Can anyone ‘fear’ a god without believing in it?

As it stands, stating “Atheists can be and sometimes are afraid of God” (My bold) is not in any way answering the actual question of “Are atheists afraid of God?” Unless clarified, the bolded ‘Are’ could be inferred to mean ‘Are all atheists secretly afraid of God’, rather than ‘In general, are the vast majority of atheists secretly or unconsciously afraid of God, or not?’.

In conclusion, I'd say that your post above is very dogmatic asserting without a shred of evidence that atheists cannot have at least some theistic belief. It completely ignores all the reasoning and evidence I've posted on this thread that it is entirely possible for an atheist to be afraid of God.

Again, I suggest that the wording of the OP’s question doesn’t sufficiently clarify the debate scope. “Atheists cannot have at least some theistic belief.” is (in my view) actually a more promising topic, as it avoids the perception of unfairly ‘trapping’ debaters.

[William]

[Replying to Tcg in post #248]

Would one cry out to a scary god for salvation? I suppose.

Yes. Like one would agree to go along with someone who threatens to torture you if you don't go along with them...I suppose...

Yes. It seems clear the term "baby atheist" here was used to describe one who was newly an atheist, not one born as an atheist.

Agreed. Only there is not such position which is real. One is either an atheist or is not. There is no real agreed upon 'gestation period' involved. One simply remains a theist until one has actually become an atheist.

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #248]

Would one cry out to a scary god for salvation? I suppose.

Yes. Like one would agree to go along with someone who threatens to torture you if you don't go along with them...I suppose...

That certainly could be the case. It would include a rather sad view of the creator though.

Yes. It seems clear the term "baby atheist" here was used to describe one who was newly an atheist, not one born as an atheist.

Agreed. Only there is not such position which is real. One is either an atheist or is not. There is no real agreed upon 'gestation period' involved. One simply remains a theist until one has actually become an atheist.

I think that is true. I remember going through a transition period of sorts, but there was never a time where I was both a theist and an atheist.


Tcg