The God I Don't Believe In

Argue for and against Christianity

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Paul of Tarsus
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The God I Don't Believe In

Post #1

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

It's common for atheists to describe God as a celestial tribal leader and killer or as a sky ghost who telepathically communicates his revelations and his marching orders to those he has privileged to receive them. He spies on everything we do looking for anything that we do that breaks his many rules. He hurts us if we violate those rules. He also inspires people to write books in languages that almost nobody will eventually speak or understand. He can't seem to clarify every message he has supposedly authored in those books, and some of those books either go missing or get thrown out as what even his followers cannot believe.

Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I. While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #21

Post by Tcg »

William wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:33 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:55 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:36 am
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:06 am
So a brief description of God isn't enough for you to understand what I'm referring to. In that case, your answer to the question for debate is that you're not sure if God is a source for truth; he might be a source of truth.
Nope. As I clearly stated, you've provided nothing in your description of god to determine if it is a source of truth or not. Addressing what a fellow poster actually has said is much more productive than misrepresenting their replies.
If you can't or won't address the issues raised in the OP, then I can help you to the door. Here's your hat.

Nope, still here. I've addressed the OP with every post. The OP does not contain the information needed to answer the OP question. It boils down to, "I don't like god X, therefore how can it be a source of truth?" How does not liking god X answer the question of whether or not it is a source of truth? Simple answer, it doesn't.


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To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #22

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

Tcg wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:52 pmNope, still here. I've addressed the OP with every post. The OP does not contain the information needed to answer the OP question. It boils down to, "I don't like god X, therefore how can it be a source of truth?" How does not liking god X answer the question of whether or not it is a source of truth? Simple answer, it doesn't.
You're misrepresenting what I posted and asked in the OP. I posted several reasons why the Judeo-Christian/western-monotheistic idea of God is not a source of truth that have nothing to do with how likable that God is.

And any atheist can easily answer the question for debate. If you don't believe in God, then the obvious answer to that question is that he cannot be a source of truth, and therefore you don't claim he is a source of truth.

Sadly, this whole thread is turning into a troll-fest. I do appreciate sensible, sincere debates, but obviously not everybody else does.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #23

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

nobspeople wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:05 amI mostly agree. As a proud former Christian, there's a certain 'charm' that can be had by believing, however. This 'charm' doesn't make that believed god (or God) actual. But it is real to those that believe in much the same way that some people believe they look good in clothes three sizes too small for them.
In other words, it's true for them in their world.
Belief is a funny thing that way.
Can I assume that you would say that God isn't a source of truth for you, but for some other people he is a source of truth?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #24

Post by brunumb »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pm It's common for atheists to describe God as a celestial tribal leader and killer or as a sky ghost who telepathically communicates his revelations and his marching orders to those he has privileged to receive them. He spies on everything we do looking for anything that we do that breaks his many rules. He hurts us if we violate those rules. He also inspires people to write books in languages that almost nobody will eventually speak or understand. He can't seem to clarify every message he has supposedly authored in those books, and some of those books either go missing or get thrown out as what even his followers cannot believe.

Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I. While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
[My bolding]

Do Christians believe in God as you described him? If not, then who is your question aimed at if atheists, as well as yourself, do not believe in such a God? Also, what do the attributes you have described as coming from some atheists have to do with God being a source of truth? :?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #25

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

brunumb wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:59 pmDo Christians believe in God as you described him? If not, then who is your question aimed at if atheists, as well as yourself, do not believe in such a God? Also, what do the attributes you have described as coming from some atheists have to do with God being a source of truth? :?
Is all this saying that atheists simply don't claim that any truth can come from God? I suppose if you're an atheist, then God can't be a source for truth because he doesn't exist.

And please note that I didn't answer any of your questions. Frustrating, isn't it?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #26

Post by William »

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #26]

Paul.

Just out of interest, I was under the impression you believed in a God. Which God do you believe in?

Thanks

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #27

Post by brunumb »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:17 pm
brunumb wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:59 pmDo Christians believe in God as you described him? If not, then who is your question aimed at if atheists, as well as yourself, do not believe in such a God? Also, what do the attributes you have described as coming from some atheists have to do with God being a source of truth? :?
Is all this saying that atheists simply don't claim that any truth can come from God? I suppose if you're an atheist, then God can't be a source for truth because he doesn't exist.

And please note that I didn't answer any of your questions. Frustrating, isn't it?
Not really. It just suggests to me that even you don't know what the OP is all about.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #28

Post by nobspeople »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:40 pm
nobspeople wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:05 amI mostly agree. As a proud former Christian, there's a certain 'charm' that can be had by believing, however. This 'charm' doesn't make that believed god (or God) actual. But it is real to those that believe in much the same way that some people believe they look good in clothes three sizes too small for them.
In other words, it's true for them in their world.
Belief is a funny thing that way.
Can I assume that you would say that God isn't a source of truth for you, but for some other people he is a source of truth?
IMO:
The modern Christian god that's taught in churches I believe is only real in the minds of the believers. While there may be a 'god-like' being out there, its connection to humanity is minimal, if at all, and humanity's ability to speak with and understand it is mostly non-existent (not for the lack of trying, but some things are not within the reach of humanity at this point)
In regards to 'truth', that's a subjective and individualized term.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #29

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

William wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:37 am For reference - can you name some of the more prominent Christian denominations who you think are worshiping this god that you don't believe in?
Why would atheists dodge a question about God as a source of truth? Could it be that atheists are as insecure about their beliefs as Christians are?

I've also wondered if atheists treat people like this in person. Do they ignore another person's questions only to ask that person a bunch of their own questions expecting answers?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #30

Post by Difflugia »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:26 amWhy would atheists dodge a question about God as a source of truth?
Nobody's dodging anything. At face value, your question's a huge non sequitur with the OP. It just looks to me like everyone else is being more charitable than I was by assuming that you meant something more meaningful and they are still trying to figure out what that is.
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:26 amI've also wondered if atheists treat people like this in person. Do they ignore another person's questions only to ask that person a bunch of their own questions expecting answers?
My earlier post was an attempt to get you to clarify your question into something meaningful, but you told me to answer the question before you did so. I answered the question as literally asked, but then you failed to hold up your end of your own bargain.

As far as I can tell, the others are still trying to work out what you meant in the first place, but have more patience with you than I did.
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:41 amSadly, this whole thread is turning into a troll-fest.
I'm not sure it was ever anything else, despite the most valiant attempts to engage with you.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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