It's common for atheists to describe God as a celestial tribal leader and killer or as a sky ghost who telepathically communicates his revelations and his marching orders to those he has privileged to receive them. He spies on everything we do looking for anything that we do that breaks his many rules. He hurts us if we violate those rules. He also inspires people to write books in languages that almost nobody will eventually speak or understand. He can't seem to clarify every message he has supposedly authored in those books, and some of those books either go missing or get thrown out as what even his followers cannot believe.
Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I. While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
The God I Don't Believe In
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #61I never do. I simply share my beliefs and answer questions asked of me from the authoritynof the bible. I believe I am part of the only religions organisation on earth today that has Gods approval. I don't get all bent out of shape if people don't agree.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:00 pmJust be sure to be upfront and responsible with the people you tell that Jehovah's Witnesses are the true religion.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:41 pm Not a problem for me; I do not exist for other people to objectively verify my feelings. You shared your beliefs, I shared mine, I can live with that without seeing the difference as problematic. I am convinced of the biblical testimony, it is not problematic in my opinion that others are not.
Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:00 pm
Make sure they understand that your faith is personal, subjective, and cannot be objectively verified.
I don't encourage people to have my faith, I encourage folk to build their own. If God helps them to do that, like me, they won't be bothered what other people think, since He would have verified their faith for them and that's all that matters.
Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:00 pm
If you don't, then they may be misled. And I do have a problem with people being misled.
So do I ! The God of the bible God hates lies and deception, which is why I have no part in either.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- Paul of Tarsus
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #62Please don't play word games with me. You clearly have a religion and an agenda to convert people to it.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:59 pmI don't encourage people to have my faith...Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:00 pm
Make sure they understand that your faith is personal, subjective, and cannot be objectively verified.
I encourage folk to build their own.
Then you are much different from the Jehovah's Witnesses I'm acquainted with. The Watchtower closely orchestrates Jehovah's Witnesses indoctrinating them in groups in the kingdom halls. There's little if any independent thought there. I don't see how people can build their own faith that way. The faith being built is that of the Watchtower.
Well, I do care what other people think. Jehovah's Witnesses should care what other people think too--we all should at least consider the thoughts of others. Civilization is built on people cooperating and living in harmony with each other. If we disregard other people's thinking, then we can break important bonds between each other, and I understand that Jehovah's Witnesses have done just that.If God helps them to do that, like me, they won't be bothered what other people think, since He would have verified their faith for them and that's all that matters.
If Jehovah is so fond of truth, then I wonder why he doesn't bother to verify it.The God of the bible God hates lies and deception, which is why I have no part in either.
Finally, if God has verified anybody's faith, then it seems reasonable to me that he would grant us all that favor. If people say God has verified their faith, and they have nothing to show for it, then it seems logical to me that they are deluded. Jehovah is not the God I believe in.
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #63Logically an omniscient God wouldnt have to verify truth, He would know everything there is to know.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:58 pm
If Jehovah is so fond of truth, then I wonder why he doesn't bother to verify it.
I dont believe I asked you but...thanks for sharing?
JW
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #64Biblically speaking that simply is not the case. The bible is quite clear, he ignores those he deems unworthy of truth.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:58 pm
... if God has verified anybody's faith, then it seems reasonable to me that he would grant us all that favor.
JW
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Why did Jesus not speak in plain straightforward terms but rather in illustrations?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- Paul of Tarsus
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #65Well, frankly, that would include the Watchtower. What truth did they ever demonstrate?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:49 pmBiblically speaking that simply is not the case. The bible is quite clear, he ignores those he deems unworthy of truth.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:58 pm
... if God has verified anybody's faith, then it seems reasonable to me that he would grant us all that favor.
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #66The same can be said of god/gods. It appears that all such entities are what people could have made up. If people can make up god/gods, then there is no reason to make the additional assumption that any such god/gods actually exist anywhere outside of the imaginations of those who made them up.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:06 pm It appears to me that all such claims of divine revelation are what people could have made up. If people can make up revelations, then I see no reason to make the additional assumption that God has made up some of them.
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To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #67You've provided no evidence that this is the case. If it is, then it would be one of the very few things the bible is quite clear on.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:49 pm Biblically speaking that simply is not the case. The bible is quite clear, he ignores those he deems unworthy of truth.
JW
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #68Deception would include not reporting known abuse in order to protect "Jehovah's name."JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:59 pm The God of the bible God hates lies and deception, which is why I have no part in either.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
Any time an organization has some members who don't report "the abuse of their children by others because they don't want to bring reproach on Jehovah's name.", deception is being practiced.Jehovah's Witnesses sued over 'historical sex abuse'
"The way that Jehovah's Witnesses handle matters within the congregation, it's a closed shop," he told the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme.
"I know for a fact now that there are parents that haven't done anything about the abuse of their children by others because they don't want to bring reproach on Jehovah's name."
Mr Viney's own daughter, Karen, was abused as a child - and has since spoken out about it publicly.
But when she left the organisation, Mr Viney disowned her - something he has regretted ever since.
"When I was an elder and a dad, I put being an elder absolutely first," he said. "And that was a mistake."
Mr Viney said he had eventually reported his own abuser to the police, in 2019, after years of being too "ashamed", only to be told the man had gone on to abuse other children and died in prison.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51006771
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #69If you look at my earlier posts I made it clear (on several occassions) that only an Almighty, all knowing Creator can "demonstrated truth", for only he would have access to it in the absolute. All any human can do is express his or her belief that this has been done. The Watchtower is a magazine (it is ink and paper or digitel pixels) it cannot "demonstrate" anything. It is published by Jehovahs Witnesses and we therein express our belief in the source of truth which we hold to be the bible.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:06 pmWhat truth did they [the Watchtower] ever demonstrate?JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:49 pmBiblically speaking that simply is not the case. The bible is quite clear, he ignores those he deems unworthy of truth.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:58 pm
... if God has verified anybody's faith, then it seems reasonable to me that he would grant us all that favor.
We have absolutely no problem if you, or anyone disagrees.
JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #70I totally agree, thanks you for pointing that out. I hope that the proper autorities duly judge and punish such people, wherever they may be found.
JW
To learn more please go to other posts related to...
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , SHUNNING and ... CHILD ABUSE
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8