The God I Don't Believe In

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Paul of Tarsus
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The God I Don't Believe In

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

It's common for atheists to describe God as a celestial tribal leader and killer or as a sky ghost who telepathically communicates his revelations and his marching orders to those he has privileged to receive them. He spies on everything we do looking for anything that we do that breaks his many rules. He hurts us if we violate those rules. He also inspires people to write books in languages that almost nobody will eventually speak or understand. He can't seem to clarify every message he has supposedly authored in those books, and some of those books either go missing or get thrown out as what even his followers cannot believe.

Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I. While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #11

Post by Tcg »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pm Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I.
Atheists lack belief in god/gods. That would include this god, but wouldn't be limited to it. All gods.
While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above.
Okay.
I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special.
That could be. People make up all kinds of gods for their own purposes.
A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
You've not provided anything to base an answer to this question on. You apparently don't like the god you've described, but that doesn't provide any data on which to base whether or not it could be a source of truth. Some rather nasty people have been a source for truth, why couldn't the same be for this or any other god?


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To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #12

Post by Difflugia »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:08 pm...so why claim that any truth can come from him?
I haven't. I'm an atheist.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #13

Post by William »

For reference - can you name some of the more prominent Christian denominations who you think are worshiping this god that you don't believe in?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #14

Post by benchwarmer »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:05 pm You can't answer a question about God without believing in God? That's illogical because you don't need to believe in God to understand a description of God. I don't believe in Dracula, but I understand what a vampire is.
I did say I don't believe in any god concepts I have thus far come across including the one described in the OP. So, how am I supposed to know WHY some people (other than me) might claim something about ... well anything really. Since I don't believe in gods, I make no claims about them. That's as far as I can honestly answer.
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:05 pm What's deficient about my description of a God in the OP?
Well for starters it appears to me to be a bit of a strawman. You say "It's common for atheists to describe God as " yet as an atheist I do no such thing. I guess I'm not 'common'. I did used to be a Christian. At the time I believed the Christian God was wonderful, loving, all powerful, and in control. Then I had to go and start really reading the Bible and that all pretty much fell apart. Since I had no direct communication with this God, I only had what other Christians were saying and what was written in the Bible.

As I stated in my opening reply, the description given is IMO a caricature of the details that can be found in the Bible. My deconversion centered around the absurdity of all the various things this God has apparently done as described in the Bible. So for me, the lack of truth about that description of a competent god was illogical. i.e. if there was a god, surely this description in the Bible doesn't make sense.

Now, why would anyone claim truths can come from something only described in a book or by word of mouth? My best guess is because they are invested in their religion (likely through indoctrination of some sort) and can't admit non-truth would come from their god without doing what I did, become an atheist.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #15

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

Tcg wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:19 pmYou've not provided anything to base an answer to this question on.


Yes I did. It's in the first paragraph in the OP. I described the God I'm referring to there.,
You apparently don't like the god you've described, but that doesn't provide any data on which to base whether or not it could be a source of truth.
So a brief description of God isn't enough for you to understand what I'm referring to. In that case, your answer to the question for debate is that you're not sure if God is a source for truth; he might be a source of truth.
Some rather nasty people have been a source for truth, why couldn't the same be for this or any other god?
To answer this question I will need more data on what nasty people are.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #16

Post by nobspeople »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pm It's common for atheists to describe God as a celestial tribal leader and killer or as a sky ghost who telepathically communicates his revelations and his marching orders to those he has privileged to receive them. He spies on everything we do looking for anything that we do that breaks his many rules. He hurts us if we violate those rules. He also inspires people to write books in languages that almost nobody will eventually speak or understand. He can't seem to clarify every message he has supposedly authored in those books, and some of those books either go missing or get thrown out as what even his followers cannot believe.

Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I. While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
I mostly agree. As a proud former Christian, there's a certain 'charm' that can be had by believing, however. This 'charm' doesn't make that believed god (or God) actual. But it is real to those that believe in much the same way that some people believe they look good in clothes three sizes too small for them.
In other words, it's true for them in their world.
Belief is a funny thing that way.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #17

Post by Tcg »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:06 am
So a brief description of God isn't enough for you to understand what I'm referring to. In that case, your answer to the question for debate is that you're not sure if God is a source for truth; he might be a source of truth.
Nope. As I clearly stated, you've provided nothing in your description of god to determine if it is a source of truth or not. Addressing what a fellow poster actually has said is much more productive than misrepresenting their replies.
Some rather nasty people have been a source for truth, why couldn't the same be for this or any other god?
To answer this question I will need more data on what nasty people are.
You know, people who are similar to the god you've created with your earlier description.


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To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #18

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

benchwarmer wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:43 am
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:05 pm You can't answer a question about God without believing in God? That's illogical because you don't need to believe in God to understand a description of God. I don't believe in Dracula, but I understand what a vampire is.
I did say I don't believe in any god concepts I have thus far come across including the one described in the OP. So, how am I supposed to know WHY some people (other than me) might claim something about ... well anything really. Since I don't believe in gods, I make no claims about them. That's as far as I can honestly answer.
If you don't want to address the issues I raised in the OP, then I can see you to the door.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #19

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

Tcg wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:36 am
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:06 am
So a brief description of God isn't enough for you to understand what I'm referring to. In that case, your answer to the question for debate is that you're not sure if God is a source for truth; he might be a source of truth.
Nope. As I clearly stated, you've provided nothing in your description of god to determine if it is a source of truth or not. Addressing what a fellow poster actually has said is much more productive than misrepresenting their replies.
If you can't or won't address the issues raised in the OP, then I can help you to the door. Here's your hat.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #20

Post by William »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:55 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:36 am
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:06 am
So a brief description of God isn't enough for you to understand what I'm referring to. In that case, your answer to the question for debate is that you're not sure if God is a source for truth; he might be a source of truth.
Nope. As I clearly stated, you've provided nothing in your description of god to determine if it is a source of truth or not. Addressing what a fellow poster actually has said is much more productive than misrepresenting their replies.
If you can't or won't address the issues raised in the OP, then I can help you to the door. Here's your hat.

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