It's common for atheists to describe God as a celestial tribal leader and killer or as a sky ghost who telepathically communicates his revelations and his marching orders to those he has privileged to receive them. He spies on everything we do looking for anything that we do that breaks his many rules. He hurts us if we violate those rules. He also inspires people to write books in languages that almost nobody will eventually speak or understand. He can't seem to clarify every message he has supposedly authored in those books, and some of those books either go missing or get thrown out as what even his followers cannot believe.
Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I. While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
The God I Don't Believe In
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- Paul of Tarsus
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #31[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #30]
I know some atheists. They don't 'dodge', they simply don't partake much, if at all, in these types of questions. But there are many atheists out there I'm sure some dodge. The percentage? Anyone's guess.Why would atheists dodge a question about God as a source of truth?
Sure. Or it could be they're not interested in talking - again - about something they don't believe in.Could it be that atheists are as insecure about their beliefs as Christians are?
How people treat others isn't totally dependent on their beliefs in the supernatural, or whatever term you wish to use here. Usually, how people treat others is more about the character and personality of that person than their belief (or lack of), from my experience. But with several billion people on the planet, it's hard to pin-down one or two proof of 'why' people do 'this or that'.I've also wondered if atheists treat people like this in person. Do they ignore another person's questions only to ask that person a bunch of their own questions expecting answers?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #32I don't know the answer to your questions here. I myself am a theist, and was simply asking you a question in order to try and understand more clearly your statements in the OP...where you say what type of God you don't believe in.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:26 amWhy would atheists dodge a question about God as a source of truth? Could it be that atheists are as insecure about their beliefs as Christians are?
I've also wondered if atheists treat people like this in person. Do they ignore another person's questions only to ask that person a bunch of their own questions expecting answers?
That is also why I asked you which God do you believe in. I was under the impression you believed in a God.
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #33No one is dodging your question because it is not answerable. On the other hand, you have dodged just about every question presented to you since the OP. You described attributes of God of the Bible that atheists among others do not believe in. Then you ask "why claim that any truth can come from him?" which makes no sense at all. When asked to clarify what exactly you are getting at, all you have done is dodge and obfuscate. What truth are you talking about. How is any god a source of truth? And, if you don't believe in any gods, how do you see such beings as the source of anything at all, let alone some so-called truth?Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:26 amWhy would atheists dodge a question about God as a source of truth? Could it be that atheists are as insecure about their beliefs as Christians are?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
- Paul of Tarsus
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #34OK; I'll bite.
The God that makes the most sense to me is that mysterious something that is responsible for existence, or at least what is responsible for the kind of existence we experience. I don't believe in the western-monotheistic God who impregnates virgins without a penis or who fries in a BBQ pit people who upset him. That kind of God is obviously what people have made up. Nevertheless, the Bible God is based on what people almost universally recognize as the "foundation of all being." I doubt if this God is much like a person but is more like a force or cause that affects all that exists and makes existence not only possible but mandatory. In other words, it is impossible for nothing to exist--something must exist. This fact is what I think is the most rational way to describe God. God is what makes existence.
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #35Thanks for your explanation.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:56 pmOK; I'll bite.
The God that makes the most sense to me is that mysterious something that is responsible for existence, or at least what is responsible for the kind of existence we experience. I don't believe in the western-monotheistic God who impregnates virgins without a penis or who fries in a BBQ pit people who upset him. That kind of God is obviously what people have made up. Nevertheless, the Bible God is based on what people almost universally recognize as the "foundation of all being." I doubt if this God is much like a person but is more like a force or cause that affects all that exists and makes existence not only possible but mandatory. In other words, it is impossible for nothing to exist--something must exist. This fact is what I think is the most rational way to describe God. God is what makes existence.
So how do you think the biblical idea of The Creator got mixed up with the [clearly] Deist idea of The Creator that you believe in?
What caused the conflation?
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #36There's at least one important difference between my theology and that of deism: Deists maintain that God does not intervene in the world, but I think he can intervene and sometimes does.
I think that deism is based on the Biblical God. Deists think that nature has been created by God, but they can't buy that God has inspired the Bible and has worked miracles. It seems that deists, being skeptical of alleged revelation, don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. So they reject revelation and miracles while holding on to God as an explanation for existence.
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #37What is going on with the atheists on this thread? Are they afraid that if they're not careful and answer a tough question or two, then the realization of God will jump out at them?
Tell the whole truth, now. I didn't answer some questions because my questions were going unanswered.On the other hand, you have dodged just about every question presented to you since the OP.
Then just answer that you don't say that God is a source of truth because to you God doesn't exist. You can also try to explain why those who do believe in God see him as a source of truth.You described attributes of God of the Bible that atheists among others do not believe in. Then you ask "why claim that any truth can come from him?" which makes no sense at all.
Again, please tell all the truth. I was refraining from answering questions when somebody neglected to answer my question(s).When asked to clarify what exactly you are getting at, all you have done is dodge and obfuscate.
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #38So herein is the confusion folks might have with your OP statement as it conflicts with your statement "God has inspired the Bible and has worked miracles" as we all know that the god of the Bible is very much written as like unto this idea of the God that you say you don't believe in.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:01 pmThere's at least one important difference between my theology and that of deism: Deists maintain that God does not intervene in the world, but I think he can intervene and sometimes does.
I think that deism is based on the Biblical God. Deists think that nature has been created by God, but they can't buy that God has inspired the Bible and has worked miracles. It seems that deists, being skeptical of alleged revelation, don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. So they reject revelation and miracles while holding on to God as an explanation for existence.
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #39There have been no tough questions, and your alleged reason for atheists not answering them is ludicrous. There was really only one relevant question in the OP and that was more appropriately addressed to theists rather than atheists. The atheists here have made their position quite clear and you even answered the question on their behalf in one of your posts. There is no God and therefore nothing can come from it.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:22 pm What is going on with the atheists on this thread? Are they afraid that if they're not careful and answer a tough question or two, then the realization of God will jump out at them?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.
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Re: The God I Don't Believe In
Post #40I wouldn't claim that truth would come from a god such as you describe. Fortunately, I don't think the description fits YHWH (Jehovah) the God of the bible, so imo, the point is moot.Paul of Tarsus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pm A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8