The God I Don't Believe In

Argue for and against Christianity

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Paul of Tarsus
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The God I Don't Believe In

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

It's common for atheists to describe God as a celestial tribal leader and killer or as a sky ghost who telepathically communicates his revelations and his marching orders to those he has privileged to receive them. He spies on everything we do looking for anything that we do that breaks his many rules. He hurts us if we violate those rules. He also inspires people to write books in languages that almost nobody will eventually speak or understand. He can't seem to clarify every message he has supposedly authored in those books, and some of those books either go missing or get thrown out as what even his followers cannot believe.

Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I. While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #2

Post by William »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pm It's common for atheists to describe God as a celestial tribal leader and killer or as a sky ghost who telepathically communicates his revelations and his marching orders to those he has privileged to receive them. He spies on everything we do looking for anything that we do that breaks his many rules. He hurts us if we violate those rules. He also inspires people to write books in languages that almost nobody will eventually speak or understand. He can't seem to clarify every message he has supposedly authored in those books, and some of those books either go missing or get thrown out as what even his followers cannot believe.

Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I. While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
Is that last sentence a debate question?

If so, can you word the OP with something less confusing?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #3

Post by benchwarmer »

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #1]

As an atheist, I'm usually asking the theists to describe their god to me not the other way around. The descriptions from the OP, though perhaps somewhat caricaturized, seem primarily from the Christian Bible. That tome describes a god character with lots of rules, the power to raise or kill at will, and stern warnings to believe or face serious consequences.

How do YOU describe your god? If it's not from a holy text, how did you come to your information?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #4

Post by William »

benchwarmer wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:53 pm [Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #1]

As an atheist, I'm usually asking the theists to describe their god to me not the other way around. The descriptions from the OP, though perhaps somewhat caricaturized, seem primarily from the Christian Bible. That tome describes a god character with lots of rules, the power to raise or kill at will, and stern warnings to believe or face serious consequences.

How do YOU describe your god? If it's not from a holy text, how did you come to your information?
Yes. This is helpful re the confusion I experienced in reading the OP. It appears that the author is describing a well known impression of "God" as an idea, and denying belief in that idea [with reasons why] but not accompanying that with an example of the "God" that the author does believe in...

One has to remember also, that the word "God" is synonymous with celestial creator beings...

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

William wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:42 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pm It's common for atheists to describe God as a celestial tribal leader and killer or as a sky ghost who telepathically communicates his revelations and his marching orders to those he has privileged to receive them. He spies on everything we do looking for anything that we do that breaks his many rules. He hurts us if we violate those rules. He also inspires people to write books in languages that almost nobody will eventually speak or understand. He can't seem to clarify every message he has supposedly authored in those books, and some of those books either go missing or get thrown out as what even his followers cannot believe.

Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I. While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
Is that last sentence a debate question?
Yes.
If so, can you word the OP with something less confusing?
No.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #6

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

benchwarmer wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:53 pm [Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #1]

As an atheist, I'm usually asking the theists to describe their god to me not the other way around. The descriptions from the OP, though perhaps somewhat caricaturized, seem primarily from the Christian Bible. That tome describes a god character with lots of rules, the power to raise or kill at will, and stern warnings to believe or face serious consequences.

How do YOU describe your god? If it's not from a holy text, how did you come to your information?
Please answer my question, and then I can get to your question. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #7

Post by benchwarmer »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:13 pm Please answer my question, and then I can get to your question. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?

Honestly, I'm not sure HOW to answer your question. I'm an atheist, so I don't claim anything about any given god other than I don't believe in any that I've heard about. I would only be guessing as to why one would claim anything about any given god concept.

Sorry, perhaps I should not have replied at all. However, I am interested in the god you believe in and thought maybe that's where this was going. Apologies. I'll let others chime in and perhaps dive back in later.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #8

Post by Difflugia »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pmWhile I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special.
In a coincidence that might be evidence of divine providence, a New Republic article from 2014 presenting an atheist response to this very objection was posted to Reddit's r/atheism just this afternoon.
The most common critique leveled at New Atheists is that we attack only puerile, fundamentalist forms of religion, and never engage with the “best” arguments of the faithful: those adumbrated by Sophisticated Theologians™.
So, are you arguing that such a conception of God is a straw man invented by atheists or that as an invention by Christians, it's self-evidently false and low-hanging fruit? Should atheists instead be arguing against your God, who, if I understand you correctly, is neither author of an inerrant Bible nor one that offers any form of direct revelation to his followers?
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #9

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

benchwarmer wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:24 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:13 pm Please answer my question, and then I can get to your question. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?

Honestly, I'm not sure HOW to answer your question. I'm an atheist, so I don't claim anything about any given god other than I don't believe in any that I've heard about.
You can't answer a question about God without believing in God? That's illogical because you don't need to believe in God to understand a description of God. I don't believe in Dracula, but I understand what a vampire is.
I would only be guessing as to why one would claim anything about any given god concept.
Educated guessing is welcome.
Sorry, perhaps I should not have replied at all. However, I am interested in the god you believe in and thought maybe that's where this was going. Apologies. I'll let others chime in and perhaps dive back in later.
What's deficient about my description of a God in the OP?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #10

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

Difflugia wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:32 pmSo, are you arguing that such a conception of God is a straw man invented by atheists or that as an invention by Christians, it's self-evidently false and low-hanging fruit? Should atheists instead be arguing against your God, who, if I understand you correctly, is neither author of an inerrant Bible nor one that offers any form of direct revelation to his followers?
Answer my question if you want me to answer yours: A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?

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