The God I Don't Believe In

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Paul of Tarsus
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The God I Don't Believe In

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

It's common for atheists to describe God as a celestial tribal leader and killer or as a sky ghost who telepathically communicates his revelations and his marching orders to those he has privileged to receive them. He spies on everything we do looking for anything that we do that breaks his many rules. He hurts us if we violate those rules. He also inspires people to write books in languages that almost nobody will eventually speak or understand. He can't seem to clarify every message he has supposedly authored in those books, and some of those books either go missing or get thrown out as what even his followers cannot believe.

Atheists do not and apparently cannot believe in such a God, and neither do I. While I see some compelling reasons to believe in a God, I don't believe in the God I have described above. I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #41

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

brunumb wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:27 am There have been no tough questions...
You described the question for the debate as "unanswerable." That sounds pretty tough to me.
...and your alleged reason for atheists not answering them is ludicrous.
Opinion noted. I think my reasons explaining the reluctance of atheists to answer the question for debate are accurate. It's human nature to refuse to answer questions if answering those questions will make them look bad. For example, as we speak Derek Chauvin is refusing to take the stand in his murder trial. No doubt he fears he will incriminate himself if he testifies.
There was really only one relevant question in the OP and that was more appropriately addressed to theists rather than atheists.
While it is true that my question for debate is meant primarily for theists, I expect anybody who participates in the debate to at least try to answer it or respond to it in some meaningful way.
There is no God and therefore nothing can come from it.
There you go! You answered that presumably unanswerable question. Thank you very much. It wasn't so hard, now was it? We can debate sensibly if we try.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #42

Post by Bust Nak »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pm I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
Only someone who has made the claim that truth can come from such a god can tell you their reason. I don't want to speculate on any deeper motives, presumably, they claim that because they genuinely believe a celestial tribal leader, as you put it, is the actual source of truth.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #43

Post by brunumb »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:16 pm
There is no God and therefore nothing can come from it.
There you go! You answered that presumably unanswerable question. Thank you very much. It wasn't so hard, now was it? We can debate sensibly if we try.
The mystery is why you refused to acknowledge that from the beginning. It is actually not an answer to your unanswerable question because your question made no sense. The real question is what you actually put up for debate. This just seems to be another one of your numerous threads aimed at attacking atheism.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #44

Post by brunumb »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:30 am
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pm A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
I wouldn't claim that truth would come from a god such as you describe. Fortunately, I don't think the description fits YHWH (Jehovah) the God of the bible, so imo, the point is moot.
Regardless of whatever else was wrong with the OP, the description of Yahweh/Jehovah fitted him to a T.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #45

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

Bust Nak wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:16 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pm I think that's a God that people have made up for their own purposes to feel special about themselves and to see others as not so special. A God like that is only good to control and take advantage of others. He's useless as a source of truth, so why claim that any truth can come from him?
Only someone who has made the claim that truth can come from such a god can tell you their reason.
Sure, but you just answer the way you think is best if you're anybody else.
I don't want to speculate on any deeper motives, presumably, they claim that because they genuinely believe a celestial tribal leader, as you put it, is the actual source of truth.
OK, then you don't wish to participate in the discussion.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #46

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

brunumb wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:59 pmThis just seems to be another one of your numerous threads aimed at attacking atheism.
Then defend atheism.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #47

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:30 am I wouldn't claim that truth would come from a god such as you describe. Fortunately, I don't think the description fits YHWH (Jehovah) the God of the bible, so imo, the point is moot.
Then substitute your own version of God. How is Jehovah a source of truth?

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #48

Post by brunumb »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:43 pm
brunumb wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:59 pmThis just seems to be another one of your numerous threads aimed at attacking atheism.
Then defend atheism.
What's to defend? Atheism is not a choice. If you are unable to believe in the existence of gods, you are an atheist. End of story.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #49

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:46 pm
How is Jehovah a source of truth?
How? Well the source of something is the "originator" of it, the primary cause of that thing. By asking "How is Jehovah a source of truth", I suppose you are asking, what is the mechanism by which He can be the the primary cause of all that is true.

I believe that would be through His being the "first cause", the omnipotent Creator. Only by being in such a position, being able to know everything about a present reality, and only from there would he be in the position to be the source of absolute truth.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: The God I Don't Believe In

Post #50

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:34 am
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:46 pm
How is Jehovah a source of truth?
How? Well the source of something is the "originator" of it, the primary cause of that thing. By asking "How is Jehovah a source of truth", I suppose you are asking, what is the mechanism by which He can be the the primary cause of all that is true.

I believe that would be through His being the "first cause", the omnipotent Creator. Only by being in such a position, being able to know everything about a present reality, and only from there would he be in the position to be the source of absolute truth.
What I'm asking is how does Jehovah unambiguously communicate his truth, and how do you know it's the truth?

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