Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.




From Lifeway research



Image
source

As a percentage of the 48% of Americans who believe the Bible is the word of god, this means that only 21% (about 1/5) of all Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Boy, from the way Christianity is touted in the USA I would have figured the percentage would be much higher. How about you, does this seem about right?


.

User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

Re: Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #21

Post by Miles »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 1:10 pm
Miles wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:23 pmAs a percentage of the 48% of Americans who believe the Bible is the word of god, this means that only 21% (about 1/5) of all Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Boy, from the way Christianity is touted in the USA I would have figured the percentage would be much higher. How about you, does this seem about right? .
Yes, as far as I can tell, I have no reason to disagree with those statistics. As much as the Bible and Christianity are touted by apologists, people do have brains. The Bible's writers were writing about God, and what they wrote need not be true about God. A piece of papyrus will stand every bit as still for an error as it will stand still for a fact. I think that even Christians understand this fact, and when they read stories that are simply outlandish, they are not quick to believe it all.
In as much as "many evangelicals believe in biblical inerrancy, [it's free of error] while other evangelicals believe in biblical infallibility [it's not false, mistaken, or defective]." source AND that 25.4% of the United States population identify as Evangelical Protestant. source I'd say that a whole lot of people I are quite quick to believe it all.


.

User avatar
Paul of Tarsus
Banned
Banned
Posts: 688
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:42 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 150 times

Re: Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #22

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

tam wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 2:27 pm Peace to you,
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 1:24 pm
tam wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 4:26 pmPeople hold all sorts of different views, even if it means not accepting something that their particular denomination teaches (and perhaps some are simply aware that bible is NOT the Word of God; that Christ is the Word of God, as is even written: John 1:14-15; Rev 19:13). So I am not surprised at those numbers, but I would not have been surprised if they were higher either.
What you're saying here seems a bit circular. If the Bible isn't the word of God, then how can it substantiate that Christ is the word of God? Wouldn't the Bible need to be God's word to assure us something about Christ?
I'm not saying Christ is the Word of God just because the Bible claims Him to be the Word of God. Bible or no bible, Christ is the Word of God. But for the some/many who believe the Bible is the Word of God, then it can be pointed out to them that a) the bible does not make that claim about itself, and b) the bible actually states that Christ is the Word of God.
If I understand you correctly, you followed up your statement that Christ is "the word of God" citing two Bible verses not because that citation is really needed to prove Christ is the word of God but only to convince those who mistakenly believe that the Bible is the word of God that they are wrong. Is that correct? If you convince them that the Bible isn't God's word, then how is the Bible of any use in proving Christ is the word of God?

I checked Hebrews 4:12, and regarding the word of God it tells us:
Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Note that this passage uses the pronoun "it" to refer to the word of God. So the passage cannot be referring to Christ. I checked some other passages, and in those passages the word of God is always a thing and not Christ. John 1:14-15 refers to Christ as "the Word" and not the word of God. Only in Revelation 19:13 is word of God used to refer to Christ. So it seems to me that "the word of God" is generally meant to be taken literally. Revelation is big on metaphors, so there Christ is called the word of God.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Re: Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #23

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
I checked Hebrews 4:12, and regarding the word of God it tells us:
Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Note that this passage uses the pronoun "it" to refer to the word of God. So the passage cannot be referring to Christ.
This is a good example of how the erring pen of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8) can mislead, based on their own lack of knowledge of WHO the Word of God truly is, rather than 'what', as religion teaches. Because there is no actual 'it' in that passage. You can check that for yourself at the following site (the interlinear).

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/heb ... cf_1137012

You can also see this in places like biblehub.com, which lists different translations, some of which add an 'it' and some of which remain closer to the original. The Young's literal translation, for instance, does not add an 'it' to the actual passage).

https://biblehub.com/hebrews/4-12.htm

So there is no 'it' in the English Standard Version, Berean Literal Bible, KJV, NewKJV, NASB, ASV, Douay-Rheims, ERV, Literal Standard Version, New Heart English Version, World English Bible, Young's Literal Translation.


Once could also test the claims of the passage itself. The bible is not alive, it is not a living thing. But the Word of God in the passage at Hebrews 4:12 is described as being alive, as living.

(as for the examples that you mention, without seeing them, I would suggest that it is the same as above: an error of the scribes, either adding to the text or choosing to translate something as 'it' when there is a choice between 'it/he/she/they', etc.)

Peace again to you.

User avatar
Paul of Tarsus
Banned
Banned
Posts: 688
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:42 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 150 times

Re: Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #24

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

tam wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:42 pm Peace to you,
I checked Hebrews 4:12, and regarding the word of God it tells us:
Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Note that this passage uses the pronoun "it" to refer to the word of God. So the passage cannot be referring to Christ.
This is a good example of how the erring pen of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8) can mislead, based on their own lack of knowledge of WHO the Word of God truly is, rather than 'what', as religion teaches. Because there is no actual 'it' in that passage.
You are correct that the word "it" does not appear in the Greek. I don't think that the NRSV meant to mislead, or that it was a dumb mistake, though. The folks who translated the NRSV probably placed it in the text because it was implied and improved the flow of the wording of the text.

Anyway, to say Hebrews 4:12 is referring to Christ doesn't fit the context well because Jesus and Christ do not appear in that chapter. Also, how could Christ be "sharper than any two-edged sword"? And why would it say Christ is "living and active"? The writer surely didn't think that he needed to explain that Christ wasn't dead or lying around.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Re: Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #25

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:20 pm
tam wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 6:42 pm Peace to you,
I checked Hebrews 4:12, and regarding the word of God it tells us:
Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Note that this passage uses the pronoun "it" to refer to the word of God. So the passage cannot be referring to Christ.
This is a good example of how the erring pen of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8) can mislead, based on their own lack of knowledge of WHO the Word of God truly is, rather than 'what', as religion teaches. Because there is no actual 'it' in that passage.
You are correct that the word "it" does not appear in the Greek. I don't think that the NRSV meant to mislead, or that it was a dumb mistake, though. The folks who translated the NRSV probably placed it in the text because it was implied and improved the flow of the wording of the text.
Who says it's implied? No doubt some believe it is implied, but that is not the same as it BEING implied.

Note also that I never said the NRSV meant to mislead, only that this is a good example of how the erring pen of the scribes CAN mislead.


Anyway, to say Hebrews 4:12 is referring to Christ doesn't fit the context well because Jesus and Christ do not appear in that chapter.


Christ is specifically mentioned in verse 14 of that same chapter.
Also, how could Christ be "sharper than any two-edged sword"?


By doing what the text states: penetrating even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; judging the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
And why would it say Christ is "living and active"?
Because it is true; and perhaps to emphasize that truth as part of what he just finished saying.
The writer surely didn't think that he needed to explain that Christ wasn't dead or lying around.
No, but sometimes people get complacent or concerned, so a reminder might be in order.


Peace again to you.

User avatar
Paul of Tarsus
Banned
Banned
Posts: 688
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:42 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 150 times

Re: Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #26

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

[Replying to tam in post #26]

We're going off on another tangent, but what I'm really interested in is if the Bible is not the word of God, then why cite it when you want to make a case that Christ is the word of God? Earlier you said that Christ is the word of God, "Bible or no Bible." Are we to just take your word for it?

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Re: Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #27

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #27]

I was not 'making a case'; I was just pointing out that a) the bible does not claim to BE the Word of God; and that b) the bible states that Christ is the Word of God. You can look those things up for yourself.

You know (from past conversations) that I do not expect anyone to take my word for anything.



Peace again to you.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8488
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #28

Post by Tcg »

tam wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:17 pm Peace to you,

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #27]

I was not 'making a case'; I was just pointing out that a) the bible does not claim to BE the Word of God; and that b) the bible states that Christ is the Word of God. You can look those things up for yourself.

You know (from past conversations) that I do not expect anyone to take my word for anything.



Peace again to you.
The bible wasn't compiled until centuries after the individual NT books were written:
The Bible

The Muratorian Canon, which is believed to date to 200 A.D., is the earliest compilation of canonical texts resembling the New Testament.

It was not until the 5th century that all the different Christian churches came to a basic agreement on Biblical canon. The books that eventually were considered canon reflect the times they were embraced as much the times of the events they portray.

https://www.history.com/topics/religion/bible
When the authors of the texts that eventually became the bible speak of the "Word of God", they couldn't possibly be referring to the bible as it didn't yet exist. This supports your conclusion. These writers had to be speaking of something/someone other than the bible.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14003
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #29

Post by William »

Tcg wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:42 pm
tam wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 11:17 pm Peace to you,

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #27]

I was not 'making a case'; I was just pointing out that a) the bible does not claim to BE the Word of God; and that b) the bible states that Christ is the Word of God. You can look those things up for yourself.

You know (from past conversations) that I do not expect anyone to take my word for anything.



Peace again to you.
The bible wasn't compiled until centuries after the individual NT books were written:
The Bible

The Muratorian Canon, which is believed to date to 200 A.D., is the earliest compilation of canonical texts resembling the New Testament.

It was not until the 5th century that all the different Christian churches came to a basic agreement on Biblical canon. The books that eventually were considered canon reflect the times they were embraced as much the times of the events they portray.

https://www.history.com/topics/religion/bible
When the authors of the texts that eventually became the bible speak of the "Word of God", they couldn't possibly be referring to the bible as it didn't yet exist. This supports your conclusion. These writers had to be speaking of something/someone other than the bible.


Tcg
This is true enough but the problem then becomes IF "The Word of God" is Christ, THEN there is scant documentation outside of the bible which has information about this person.

Those that do claim connection with "Jesus" and are not included in today's bible, are generally regarded as false/fake/heretical/etc...by those claiming the bible is the only source of genuine material about Christ...

Even most of those who claim that Christ is "The word of God" and not the bible, still rely on the bible for any and all information to do with Christ and tend to reject outside-of-the-bible sources.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8488
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: Only 1 out of 5 Americans agree the Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

Post #30

Post by Tcg »

William wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 12:11 am
This is true enough but the problem then becomes IF "The Word of God" is Christ, THEN there is scant documentation outside of the bible which has information about this person.
Yes, you've identified a very serious issue that is often overlooked.

Those that do claim connection with "Jesus" and are not included in today's bible, are generally regarded as false/fake/heretical/etc...by those claiming the bible is the only source of genuine material about Christ...
Sure, but one has to wonder if these accusations are anything more than an attack on character rather than a genuine address of the issue you identified above.

Even most of those who claim that Christ is "The word of God" and not the bible, still rely on the bible for any and all information to do with Christ and tend to reject outside-of-the-bible sources.
This is another problem, however, rejecting the assertion that the bible claims for itself that it is the word of God does not mean one must reject the bible as an authoritative source on matters related to Christ.

For example, a conversation like this:

"Do you agree that the bible claims to be the Word of God?"

'No.'

"Do you agree that the bible contains truthful information about Christ"

'Yes'


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

Post Reply