Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Paul of Tarsus
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Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

I'd say that we can know that a prophecy is from God if a human cannot have come up with the prediction. Although people can predict future events, doing so becomes more difficult if the prediction has certain characteristics. These characteristics include but are not limited to:

1. The span of time from the prediction to the predicted event should be long.
2. The prediction should be clear and easy to understand so that the event it predicts can be readily identified as the predicted event.
3. If the predicted event has already taken place, then we should know that the prophecy was uttered before the event it has supposedly predicted.
4. The prophet could not have come up with the predicted event by extrapolating current events.
5. The predicted event should not be a self-fulfilling prophecy (the prophet or other people cannot simply take action to make the predicted event happen).
6. The probability that the predicted event can happen by chance should be very low (any person can predict that which is inevitable).
7. The time of the prophecy's fulfillment should be specified.
8. The prophecy should include important details like the names of people involved in the predicted events and places where the events are to happen.

The tougher these criteria are, the less likely a person can get a prophecy correct, but an omniscient God can presumably make the predictions despite the height of these hurdles.

So does any Biblical prophecy qualify as one readily recognized as God's prophecy?

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

QUESTION: Are bible prophecies specific and can any be proven to have been fulfilled?

There are hundreds of prophecies in the bible, some of them extremely specific. For example:
** Prophecy: THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM: * Prophecy: A time is coming when everything in your palace, which your ancestors have stored up to this day, will be carried off to Babylon; nothing will be left behind.” Isaiah 39:5, 6, prophesied c. 732 B.C.E. " am going to . . . bring them [the Babylonians] against this land and its inhabitants . . . This whole land shall be a desolate ruin. And those nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”Jeremiah 25:9, 11, prophesied b. 625 B.C.E.


==>Fulfillment 607 B.C.E. (586 B.C.E. according to most secular chronologies): Babylon destroyed Jerusalem after a year and a half siege. The city and temple were razed, and the Jews themselves were carried off to Babylon.


** Prophecy: THE NAME OF ISRAELS LIBERATOR AND THE DATE OF LIBERATION: Isaiah 44:24-28: "the cities of Judah, they will be rebuilt, ..... Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and all that I delight in he will completely carry out prophesied c. 732 B.C.E.

==>Fulfillment: Jews released by Cyrus in 539 as prophecied, exactly seventy years after their being taken into capitivey. Historical evidence: The Cyrus Cylinder


**Prophecy: THE DIVERSION OF THE EUPHRATES & UNDEFENDED GATES OF THE CAPITAL (during the Persian invasion of Babylon) "must be dried up," and that "the gates [of Babylon] will not be shut." Jeremiah 50:38; Isaiah 13:17-19; 44:27-45:1.

==>Fulfillment: These specific details were fulfilled, as the historian Herodotus reported.

**Prophecy: THE EMERGENCE OF GREECE AS A WORLD POWER AFTER MEDO-PERSIA (and the early death of Alexandra the Great, and his succession by 4 of his Generals) " There will yet be three kings[...] the fourth one will amass greater riches than all [others]. [...]the kingdom of Greece... his kingdom will be broken and be divided toward the four winds of the heavens". - Daniel 11: 1, 2, 4)
prophesied c. 536 bc

==>Fulfillment (200 years later) 323 - 301 bc
historical texts of Plutarch and Ptolemy (and others...)

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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat May 08, 2021 1:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

Post #3

Post by JehovahsWitness »

THE END OF "THE GENTILE TIMES" The beginning of the "last days" (the end of the gentille times) would be maked by a period of unprecedented troubles



Image


Further reading: 1914 A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... -prophecy/
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... last-days/




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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:22 am QUESTION: Are bible prophecies specific and can any be proven to have been fulfilled?

There are hundreds of prophecies in the bible, some of them extremely specific. For example:
** Prophecy: THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM: * Prophecy: A time is coming when everything in your palace, which your ancestors have stored up to this day, will be carried off to Babylon; nothing will be left behind.” Isaiah 39:5, 6, prophesied c. 732 B.C.E. " am going to . . . bring them [the Babylonians] against this land and its inhabitants . . . This whole land shall be a desolate ruin. And those nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.”Jeremiah 25:9, 11, prophesied b. 625 B.C.E.
==>Fulfillment 607 B.C.E. (586 B.C.E. according to most secular chronologies): Babylon destroyed Jerusalem after a year and a half siege. The city and temple were razed, and the Jews themselves were carried off to Babylon.
It appears that this prophecy has characteristics 1 through 3 along with 5 and possibly 8. That leaves 4, 6, and 7. The prophet here may have noticed that Babylon was threatening Israel and knew how Babylon treated those it conquered. Knowing these details, we see that the chances of Babylon conquering Israel were good and not hard for a Jew living in Isaiah's day to predict. Finally, I see no time that the prophet specified for the fulfillment of this prophecy, and so characteristic 7 has not been met.

As you can see I'm tough in judging the validity of alleged prophecies. That way we can rule out a humanly-possible prophecy and be more sure that Jehovah revealed the prophecy. You wouldn't want to mistake a person's prophecy for a prophecy from Jehovah, now would you?

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by Diagoras »

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #1]

These look (to me) to be an excellent measuring stick for any prophecy. The only thing I might tentatively add would be something along the lines of ‘quantity of prophecies’.

It strikes me that even given this very high bar, there is a chance that someone could get extremely lucky and accurately predict an event that appeared at least as impressive as if it had come from God. If the prophet also had a large number of ‘misses’, then that might make recognising the one ‘lucky guess’ as God’s work more difficult.

An intriguing question for debate, thanks.

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

Diagoras wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:15 pmThese look (to me) to be an excellent measuring stick for any prophecy.
Thanks. I was inspired to come up with the OP after watching apologist Mike Winger on YouTube trying to convince people that the Bible's prophecies have a divine origin. I realized he wasn't scrutinizing those prophecies thoroughly enough so I came up with what I hoped was a better way to "separate the wheat from the chaff."
The only thing I might tentatively add would be something along the lines of ‘quantity of prophecies’.
That's more of a way to check the credibility of a prophet than his prophecies, but I suppose we could include a characteristic of a legitimate prophecy as being uttered by a prophet with a good batting average.
It strikes me that even given this very high bar, there is a chance that someone could get extremely lucky and accurately predict an event that appeared at least as impressive as if it had come from God.


Sure, that's possible, but most often we need to settle for what's probable or improbable. It seems to me that the likelihood of a person uttering a prophecy that has all the characteristics I listed in the OP is so low, that for practical purposes it is impossible.
If the prophet also had a large number of ‘misses’, then that might make recognising the one ‘lucky guess’ as God’s work more difficult.
You can try prophecy yourself. Just compile a list of prophecies that have at least some of the characteristics listed in the OP except perhaps 1. Wait for a year and check the prophecies that were fulfilled. The bigger the number of prophecies, the better the chances that you will predict something that actually happens. If you do get one or more right, then amaze your friends with them! The ones you get wrong, well, you need not admit.
An intriguing question for debate, thanks.
It no doubt kills the apologists.

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

It just so happens that this month's - May 2021- TV lectures for Jehovah's Witnesses (first half of the program) is on the theme of bible prophecy. I'll post the the direct link to our website (downloadable). It might be a little deep for some, but it does give an overview if the scope of bible prophecy

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 80_1_VIDEO
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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #7]

I watched the video. What about the content of that video relates to the issue I raised in the OP?

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:39 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #7]

I watched the video. What about the content of that video relates to the issue I raised in the OP?
I believe you were asking about biblical prophecy.

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 2:14 pm Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

So does any Biblical prophecy qualify as one readily recognized as God's prophecy?
The Program was about ... bible prophecy.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 80_1_VIDEO
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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 4:03 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:39 pm [Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #7]

I watched the video. What about the content of that video relates to the issue I raised in the OP?
I believe you were asking about biblical prophecy.

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 2:14 pm Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

So does any Biblical prophecy qualify as one readily recognized as God's prophecy?
The Program was about ... bible prophecy.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#e ... 80_1_VIDEO
Image
Please explain how any prophecy mentioned in that video has characteristics like I listed in the OP.

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