Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Paul of Tarsus
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Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

I'd say that we can know that a prophecy is from God if a human cannot have come up with the prediction. Although people can predict future events, doing so becomes more difficult if the prediction has certain characteristics. These characteristics include but are not limited to:

1. The span of time from the prediction to the predicted event should be long.
2. The prediction should be clear and easy to understand so that the event it predicts can be readily identified as the predicted event.
3. If the predicted event has already taken place, then we should know that the prophecy was uttered before the event it has supposedly predicted.
4. The prophet could not have come up with the predicted event by extrapolating current events.
5. The predicted event should not be a self-fulfilling prophecy (the prophet or other people cannot simply take action to make the predicted event happen).
6. The probability that the predicted event can happen by chance should be very low (any person can predict that which is inevitable).
7. The time of the prophecy's fulfillment should be specified.
8. The prophecy should include important details like the names of people involved in the predicted events and places where the events are to happen.

The tougher these criteria are, the less likely a person can get a prophecy correct, but an omniscient God can presumably make the predictions despite the height of these hurdles.

So does any Biblical prophecy qualify as one readily recognized as God's prophecy?

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by brunumb »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:04 am
Do you think you could simply answer the question?
Oh dear. Perhaps we need this timely reminder:

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

Post #22

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:04 am Do you think you could simply answer the question? (Preferably without the sermon)
I see you don't like sermons or at least the ones that encourage you to use tough scrutiny when assessing the legitimacy of prophecies.

Anyway, the answer to your question can be found way back in the OP. I listed eight characteristics of a prophecy that should make us confident that the prophecy is from God. If I thought any of them can be disregarded, then why do you think I would have listed them? In post 18 I pointed out that the more characteristics covered by a prophecy, the more assured we can be that the prophecy is from God. Based on that answer to your question, the obvious response is to come up with an example of a prophecy that has as many of those characteristics as you can muster.

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

Post #23

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 1:39 pm ... come up with an example of a prophecy that has as many of those characteristics as you can muster.
Okay, now to address your request ...

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 4:21 pmPlease explain how any prophecy mentioned in that video has characteristics like I listed in the OP.
The video mentions several of the prophecies (plural) I listed in my intial post ( #2 ); . a post which deals with {quote} "many" of the characteristics listed in the OP. The explanation then had already been provided. So there the video is ... and there, I suspect it will remain.



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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 2:07 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 4:21 pmPlease explain how any prophecy mentioned in that video has characteristics like I listed in the OP.
The video mentions several of the prophecies (plural) I listed in my intial post ( #2 ); . a post which deals with {quote} "many" of the characteristics listed in the OP. The explanation then had already been provided. So there the video is ... and there, I suspect it will remain.
You skipped over my response to your post 2 in my post 4. There I explained that the presumed prophecy of Israel's destruction by Babylon lacks characteristics 4, 6, and 7. You never addressed what I said there but just posted a link to a video produced by the Watchtower. You've just danced around the issues all along neglecting to address them head-on. I need to conclude that you have no examples of any prophecy that can logically be judged as originating with an all-knowing God. There is good reason to conclude that any Biblical prophecy is nothing more than the creation of clever and insightful humans.

I've got to wonder if Jehovah is real, and if he's aware of what is being attributed to him. Would he be happy with people claiming falsely that he uttered an inept prediction?

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

Post #25

Post by Tcg »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 pm There is good reason to conclude that any Biblical prophecy is nothing more than the creation of clever and insightful humans.
This is especially true given that there is good reason to conclude that any God is nothing more than the creation of clever and insightful humans or rather desperate ones. Humans have invented all sorts of god/gods they hope will take special note of their followers and provide them their individual needs. There is no reason to believe that any of them exist outside of the imaginations of those who invented and/or follow them. Gods that exist only in the imaginations of their inventors and followers aren't likely to be especially skilled with prophecy.


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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

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Post by Paul of Tarsus »

Tcg wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:25 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 pm There is good reason to conclude that any Biblical prophecy is nothing more than the creation of clever and insightful humans.
This is especially true given that there is good reason to conclude that any God is nothing more than the creation of clever and insightful humans or rather desperate ones.
Failed and insufficient Biblical prophecies only serve to cast doubt on the existence of the Bible God. Other gods might still exist. I think it's safe to say that a real God may have no interest in revealing predictions to a select few.
Tcg wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:25 pmHumans have invented all sorts of god/gods they hope will take special note of their followers and provide them their individual needs. There is no reason to believe that any of them exist outside of the imaginations of those who invented and/or follow them. Gods that exist only in the imaginations of their inventors and followers aren't likely to be especially skilled with prophecy.
Atheists love to make assertions like these which is not very convincing because anybody--right or wrong--can make assertions especially if they can make those assertions without good reason or evidence.

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

Post #27

Post by brunumb »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:11 am I think it's safe to say that a real God may have no interest in revealing predictions to a select few.
Anybody--right or wrong--can make assertions especially if they can make those assertions without good reason or evidence.

(Read what Tcg said again.)
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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

Post #28

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

brunumb wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:13 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:11 am I think it's safe to say that a real God may have no interest in revealing predictions to a select few.
Anybody--right or wrong--can make assertions especially if they can make those assertions without good reason or evidence.

(Read what Tcg said again.)
I thought the reason a real God wouldn't reveal prophecies to a select few would be obvious, but I see I assumed too much. A real God would be smart enough to realize that revealing predictions to a special few would make those prophecies look like predictions uttered by people rather than uttered by he. Besides, I see no purpose in a real God acting as a soothsayer. Why would he want or need to show off?

There's the reason. All better?

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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

Post #29

Post by brunumb »

Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:03 pm
brunumb wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:13 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:11 am I think it's safe to say that a real God may have no interest in revealing predictions to a select few.
Anybody--right or wrong--can make assertions especially if they can make those assertions without good reason or evidence.

(Read what Tcg said again.)
I thought the reason a real God wouldn't reveal prophecies to a select few would be obvious, but I see I assumed too much. A real God would be smart enough to realize that revealing predictions to a special few would make those prophecies look like predictions uttered by people rather than uttered by he. Besides, I see no purpose in a real God acting as a soothsayer. Why would he want or need to show off?

There's the reason. All better?
The true purpose of your claim appeared to be to insert yet another back-handed attack on atheists.
Atheists love to make assertions like these which is not very convincing because anybody--right or wrong--can make assertions especially if they can make those assertions without good reason or evidence.
Then you proceeded to delight in making the same sort of assertions yourself. Your reasoning, by the way, was no better than just speculation and opinion. So, "All better?". Not really.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
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Re: Does the Bible include some of God's prophecies?

Post #30

Post by Paul of Tarsus »

brunumb wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:24 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:03 pm
brunumb wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:13 pm
Paul of Tarsus wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:11 am I think it's safe to say that a real God may have no interest in revealing predictions to a select few.
Anybody--right or wrong--can make assertions especially if they can make those assertions without good reason or evidence.

(Read what Tcg said again.)
I thought the reason a real God wouldn't reveal prophecies to a select few would be obvious, but I see I assumed too much. A real God would be smart enough to realize that revealing predictions to a special few would make those prophecies look like predictions uttered by people rather than uttered by he. Besides, I see no purpose in a real God acting as a soothsayer. Why would he want or need to show off?

There's the reason. All better?
The true purpose of your claim appeared to be to insert yet another back-handed attack on atheists.
What claim are you referring to? I didn't say anything about atheists in the comments you quoted above. I see the atheist persecution complex again.
Atheists love to make assertions like these which is not very convincing because anybody--right or wrong--can make assertions especially if they can make those assertions without good reason or evidence.
Then you proceeded to delight in making the same sort of assertions yourself.
But I do have good reasons to conclude that a real God would not favor a few people by revealing his predictions to them, and I posted those reasons.
Your reasoning, by the way, was no better than just speculation and opinion. So, "All better?". Not really.
I think my reasoning was valid. Where did I go wrong?

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