The Lovely Bible - The Ethics and Morality

[Aetixintro]

.
The Bible is lovely with all its metaphors and other literary tricks blended with actual story as message to the Future for all of us to benefit from!

The Old Testament
So it starts as conviction that God has created the Universe and all in it.
Within all the twists and turns,
the Bible lays down The 10 Commandments.
With lots of life's lessons to be learned, poetic justice among them.

The New Testament
It begins with an agenda of creating Heaven on Earth, after all the formalities:
Matthew 6:9-13

9 "This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.' "

We are warned about the ill fate of Jesus in various ways as death on the torturous crosses and how Jesus defeats death itself. The 1000 Jesus who have met injustice and died by cruelty, but victorious still and gone to Heaven in all their brilliance of goodness.
The rest of the New Testament is about the aftermath and final best wishes to the Readers.

For discussion, now, why are people objecting so much to the Bible?
It starts in an evil World, trying to impart meaning and hope for a better future yet so much "howling" is created. I guess the World is still evil to some degree, having thrown off the worst of it, hopefully. I mean, the reincarnations, also of the worthy children, seems to be a badly hidden police game or Alfred Hitchcock movie. It can't be it. So why the outcry? Leave the religious alone? Complain about the meaning of life itself, perhaps?
Would the Atheists ever make the World a better place themselves "with their scientific reasoning"? Do ethics and morality have a biconditional relation with being religious? Does life require the fine touches of the religious? All the best!

[JoeyKnothead]

As if that's my point. .

I see that you don't bother to post what your point was in citing the Bible as a work that condones slavery. Do you know what your point was? My obvious point is that anybody, regardless of religious position, can practice the enslavement of others. The Bible, then, is no worse than what some atheists have done.

That's kinda whataboutism, but let's run with it...

The Bible has instances of God making rulings on the keeping of slaves. And then many folks carry on about how such god is so loving and all.

But slaves.

Then, of course, atheists / atheistic societies have made slaves as well?

What do?

Condemn theists who promote their god as 'loving' when that god is accepting of slavery, and condemn those atheists who'd promote the virtues of slavery.

What I find most hideous, is that instead of just condemning slavery, some theists think it's okay if a god is claimed to be happy with it. It's almost as if we can't reach such folks on the merits of empathy towards our fellow humans. Their god says it's okay - end of discussion.

At least with atheists, we can look at em and say, "What the heck is wrong with you?"

With God, well how bout that, he's nowhere to be found that we might can holler at him.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Aetixintro in post #1]

why are people objecting so much to the Bible?

Some people see contradictions which deters their ability to believe it true.
Some don't like being told what to do by an invisible force.
Some don't like God creating everything then stepping back and saying 'Well I created it, but you people messed it up so deal with it!"
There's a lot of supernatural things in the bible which many don't believe in.
Some think they don't need an invisible man to tell them what's right and wrong.
Some don't like the examples set by believers in the bible and thus, see the bible as pointless in its claimed mission.
Some don't like having the bible shoved down their throats by some bible believers.
Some see the bible as archaic and not relevant, while others see it as barbaric.
Some see the bible as playing favorites to certain groups.
Some see all the arguing about certain parts of the bible and thus, don't believe it to be any more 'true' than any other religious writings.
Some don't believe in gods or God at all and thus, makes the bible irrelevant.
Some don't understand the bible and thus, don't see it as necessary
Some see the bible as simply another religious writing - no more or less important than other religious works.
Surely there's more to the list.

Would the Atheists ever make the World a better place themselves "with their scientific reasoning"?

Marginally, I suspect it would. But like all things humans touch, it won't be perfect. People mess everything up they get involved with. Why? Because they're not perfect.

Do ethics and morality have a biconditional relation with being religious?

Certainly there's some of that. But ethics and morality change as society evolves, as well as changes from society to society geographically as well as we learn more about the world around us from what I've seen.

Does life require the fine touches of the religious?

No. Life was just fine without religion. Religion is simply a means humans use to make sense of their environment. The environment existed before religion just fine.

[Miles]

As if that's my point. .

I see that you don't bother to post what your point was in citing the Bible as a work that condones slavery. Do you know what your point was? My obvious point is that anybody, regardless of religious position, can practice the enslavement of others. The Bible, then, is no worse than what some atheists have done.

My point was that the Bible isn't so lovely at all.

It tells of a god who creates evil (Isaiah 45:7), kills innocent children and infants (1 Samuel 15:2-3), sent bears to kill 42 kids whose only offense was to make fun of a bald man (2 Kings 2:23-24), turned a woman into a block of salt for disobeying him (Genesis 19:26), killed a guy for refusing to knock-up his sister-in-law (Genesis 38:9-10), and allows slave owners to kill their slaves without retribution (Exodus 21:20-21).
And to illustrate this proclaimed "love" I chose the Bible's account of god's approval of slavery.


.

[Paul of Tarsus]

My point was that the Bible isn't so lovely at all.

It tells of a god who creates evil (Isaiah 45:7), kills innocent children and infants (1 Samuel 15:2-3), sent bears to kill 42 kids whose only offense was to make fun of a bald man (2 Kings 2:23-24), turned a woman into a block of salt for disobeying him (Genesis 19:26), killed a guy for refusing to knock-up his sister-in-law (Genesis 38:9-10), and allows slave owners to kill their slaves without retribution (Exodus 21:20-21).
And to illustrate this proclaimed "love" I chose the Bible's account of god's approval of slavery.

Yes, I know that the Bible has some terrible stuff in it, and I know that atheists like to point that out ad infinitum. What's the point in doing so? Are Christians stoning anybody or putting anybody to the sword these days? Is the message that atheists aren't like that, and history proves it?

Anyway, the OP includes the following question:

Would the Atheists ever make the World a better place themselves "with their scientific reasoning"?

My answer to this question is yes, some atheists would use science to make the world a better place, and other atheists would do harm like many atheists have done. The same goes for Christians, so I see little difference between the two camps, the Bible's atrocities notwithstanding.

[Paul of Tarsus]

...Do you really think that the crusaders, the Inquisition, and the witch hunters knew nothing of the Bible passages speaking of love? What good did those passages do for them?

If they knew, why do you think they didn’t believe those teachings?

You're not answering my questions. Did you ever read that we are to "do unto others as we want them to do to us"? If you want others to answer your questions, then you are to answer their questions. When you answer my questions, I will answer yours.

[JoeyKnothead]

Are Christians stoning anybody or putting anybody to the sword these days?

The technology has changed.

At trial, Mr. Roeder admitted to killing Dr. Tiller and said he did it to protect unborn babies. He was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. At his sentencing, he told the court that God’s judgment would ”sweep over this land like a prairie wind.”

My answer to this question is yes, some atheists would use science to make the world a better place, and other atheists would do harm like many atheists have done. The same goes for Christians, so I see little difference between the two camps, the Bible's atrocities notwithstanding.

I can't rightly disagree. Where humans are found, well how bout that.

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to Miles in post #24]

So why "lovely"? Let's look at Evil from the Bible Study Tools: https://www.biblestudytools.com/search/ ... =niv&c=all.

Bible Study Tools states the search like this:

What does the Bible say about the topic of evil?
Bible Verses About Evil
Evil is very real and present in the world. The Bible tells us that we are all born with sin, and that even some of God's people are wolves in sheep's clothing. However, even as sinners we are still giving a conscience that helps us not give into evil urges. Feelings of shame and guilt are right emotions that guide us. These Bible verses about evil will help you determine the difference between an evil heart and an ordinary sinful heart.

So what about the lovely Bible of ours?
Yes... A selection follows.

Numbers 32:13 NIV
https://www.biblestudytools.com/numbers/32-13.html
13 The LORD’s anger burned against Israel and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until the whole generation of those who had done evil in his sight was gone.

Deuteronomy 1:35 NIV
https://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/1-35.html
35 “No one from this evil generation shall see the good land I swore to give your ancestors,

1 Samuel 12:25 NIV
https://www.biblestudytools.com/1-samuel/12-25.html
25 Yet if you persist in doing evil, both you and your king will perish.”

1 Kings 1:52 NIV
https://www.biblestudytools.com/1-kings/1-52.html
52 Solomon replied, “If he shows himself to be worthy, not a hair of his head will fall to the ground; but if evil is found in him, he will die.”

2 Kings 17:13 NIV
https://www.biblestudytools.com/2-kings/17-13.html
13 The LORD warned Israel and Judah through all his prophets and seers: “Turn from your evil ways. Observe my commands and decrees, in accordance with the entire Law that I commanded your ancestors to obey and that I delivered to you through my servants the prophets.”

Psalm 7:14 NIV
https://www.biblestudytools.com/psalms/7-14.html
14 Whoever is pregnant with evil conceives trouble and gives birth to disillusionment.

Psalm 23:4 NIV
https://www.biblestudytools.com/psalms/23-4.html
4 Even though I walk through the darkest valley,I will fear no evil, for you [God] are with me; your rod and your staff [weapons for self defence], they comfort me.

Psalm 34:14 NIV
https://www.biblestudytools.com/psalms/34-14.html
14 Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.

Psalm 37:9 NIV
https://www.biblestudytools.com/psalms/37-9.html
9 For those who are evil will be destroyed, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.

Well, well, the link at the start is for you to read from more.
But I say that, unlike the Secular Humanists who try to make a difference in the World for the better, there is only one thing about Atheists: they do not believe God exists! No mentioning of any good morals or the betterment of the World, they are just bent on disbelieving (despite radio-astronomy and radiology combined for God tablets that "speaks to us")!

So I think it's safe to say that Utopia will be effectuated by the sound religious people and other Humanists altogether. Thanks.

[JehovahsWitness]

My point was that the Bible isn't so lovely at all.

The bible is perfectly lovely.

It tells of a god who creates evil (Isaiah 45:7), kills innocent children and infants (1 Samuel 15:2-3), sent bears to kill 42 kids whose only offense was to make fun of a bald man (2 Kings 2:23-24), turned a woman into a block of salt for disobeying him (Genesis 19:26), killed a guy for refusing to knock-up his sister-in-law (Genesis 38:9-10), and allows slave owners to kill their slaves without retribution (Exodus 21:20-21).
And to illustrate this proclaimed "love" I chose the Bible's account of god's approval of slavery.

I see nothing unlovely about the bible in the verses above.




JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to ....

WAR, VIOLENCE and .... THE "BAD" GOD

[William]

.
The Bible is lovely with all its metaphors and other literary tricks blended with actual story as message to the Future for all of us to benefit from!

The Old Testament
So it starts as conviction that God has created the Universe and all in it.
Within all the twists and turns,
the Bible lays down The 10 Commandments.
With lots of life's lessons to be learned, poetic justice among them.

The New Testament
It begins with an agenda of creating Heaven on Earth, after all the formalities:
Matthew 6:9-13

9 "This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.' "

We are warned about the ill fate of Jesus in various ways as death on the torturous crosses and how Jesus defeats death itself. The 1000 Jesus who have met injustice and died by cruelty, but victorious still and gone to Heaven in all their brilliance of goodness.
The rest of the New Testament is about the aftermath and final best wishes to the Readers.

For discussion, now, why are people objecting so much to the Bible?

Perhaps the answer would be because that which created the Bible [see this post for more on that] has shown itself to be...no great world changing thing.
As comments from theists about atheism being 'just as bad' verify, the problem isn't really in those particular systems as positions, but as practical world changing devices, those positions fail to prove themselves more vital than what they oppose.

So humans reach out to an invisible world to help them with this dilemma but do not provide any answer as can be verified.

Meantime life outside goes on all around them... so maybe humans will get their stuff together and sort it either accidently or because some sky-gods might come along and force us to...but the questions of Gods and Afterlifes can take a back seat in the mean time.

Because they do not seem to have any major effect on what is happening in the world right now...

[Paul of Tarsus]

Btw, Atheist Soviet Union never approved of the Human Rights (UDHR). I think they abstained from voting or walked out during the vote in the General Assembly of UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union, Soviet Union by Wikipedia. To the contrary, China has Buddhism and allows by and large for it.

That's revealing. I'll never forget an experience I had in an "infidels" forum years ago. At that time I was involved in human-rights activism. I was trying to get some of the atheists there involved in my efforts. Most of them just ignored me, but one of them dialogued with me a bit. He seemed very suspicious of me. At one point he asked me: "What about human rights?" He honestly seemed to have little idea of what I was talking about as if he had no familiarity with the notion of human rights! Needless to say, I didn't recruit any of those atheists for my human-rights activism.

There is currently zero nations which are guided by Atheism except North Korea perhaps and they are not doing particularly well.

If you check Google and Wikipedia you'll find that there are a lot of political leaders today who are atheists. Most of them have offices in nations that are not communist, and it appears that they are not bad leaders. So this evidence seems to support the conclusion that atheists and theists are much the same as far as morality is concerned. You will find good and bad in both groups. Some of the atheists in this forum seem to think that they can eschew evil by eschewing God, but it's not that simple. An atheist can denounce the Bible all day, but until she or he can demonstrate that they can do better, it's all a lot of hot air.