Christians: How do you demonstrate your relationship with God is real?

[Rational Atheist]

Most Christians, especially evangelicals, claim to know that God exists, because they claim to have a "personal relationship" with him. But I have yet to see a single Christian demonstrate that this "relationship" exists in any objective sense outside of the imagination of the believer. One would think that a relationship with the most powerful being in existence would be demonstrable to outside observers, yes? If a relationship cannot be detected by anyone other than the person who claims to have the relationship, why should anyone else grant that it is real? In any other context, someone claiming to talk to their "friend" who never talks back or provides any evidence of its existence would be considered mental illness. I am not trying to come across condescending here. I am genuinely curious if any of the Christians on here can produce any evidence that the "relationship" and "conversations" that they have with God are distinguishable from the imaginary to outside observers.

[nobspeople]

Most Christians, especially evangelicals, claim to know that God exists, because they claim to have a "personal relationship" with him. But I have yet to see a single Christian demonstrate that this "relationship" exists in any objective sense outside of the imagination of the believer. One would think that a relationship with the most powerful being in existence would be demonstrable to outside observers, yes? If a relationship cannot be detected by anyone other than the person who claims to have the relationship, why should anyone else grant that it is real? In any other context, someone claiming to talk to their "friend" who never talks back or provides any evidence of its existence would be considered mental illness. I am not trying to come across condescending here. I am genuinely curious if any of the Christians on here can produce any evidence that the "relationship" and "conversations" that they have with God are distinguishable from the imaginary to outside observers.

The best way a person can demonstrate their belief in something is real is by their words and actions. Even so, this, in of itself, does not prove what they believe as real. It only proves their BELIEF is real.
The human mind is an amazing thing. It can create sounds and sights that don't exist in our reality, but causes said person to 'accept' what they experienced as real.
The only tactile proof that exists about the Christian god is the bible, which is pretty pathetic for such a claimed, grand being, as there are many other religious writings making similar claims.
Yeah yeah yeah...faith. You gotta' have faith. Which is a way of saying "there's no proof so just believe and POOF it's real".
Ridiculous in reality, but it does create armies of misinformed and duped people, capable of great (and terrible) things.

[Paul of Tarsus]

Most Christians, especially evangelicals, claim to know that God exists, because they claim to have a "personal relationship" with him. But I have yet to see a single Christian demonstrate that this "relationship" exists in any objective sense outside of the imagination of the believer. One would think that a relationship with the most powerful being in existence would be demonstrable to outside observers, yes?

I don't think that a personal relationship with God is necessarily demonstrable. I have personal relationships with my doctors' nurses, but I'd be hard pressed to demonstrate those relationships. The same limitation might apply to a relationship with God.

If a relationship cannot be detected by anyone other than the person who claims to have the relationship, why should anyone else grant that it is real?

In that case people cannot know that the relationship is real, but it's still possible to believe that the relationship is grounded in reality if you trust the person making the claim.

In any other context, someone claiming to talk to their "friend" who never talks back or provides any evidence of its existence would be considered mental illness.

People with mental illnesses may have imaginary friends, but a person with a friend you cannot verify is not necessarily mentally ill.

I am not trying to come across condescending here. I am genuinely curious if any of the Christians on here can produce any evidence that the "relationship" and "conversations" that they have with God are distinguishable from the imaginary to outside observers.

After many attempts to test the claim, I don't know of any Christian who can verify that they have an actual personal relationship with God. So as far as this issue is concerned, personal relationships with God are unproven, and I suspect that those relationships are imaginary.

[Tcg]

I don't think that a personal relationship with God is necessarily demonstrable. I have personal relationships with my doctors' nurses, but I'd be hard pressed to demonstrate those relationships. The same limitation might apply to a relationship with God.

It would not be hard to demonstrate that those nurses actually exist. It would not be hard to demonstrate that you've met them. The limitations of demonstrating a relationship with god/gods is that no one can demonstrate that it/he/they actually exist.


Tcg

[Paul of Tarsus]

I don't think that a personal relationship with God is necessarily demonstrable. I have personal relationships with my doctors' nurses, but I'd be hard pressed to demonstrate those relationships. The same limitation might apply to a relationship with God.

It would not be hard to demonstrate that those nurses actually exist. It would not be hard to demonstrate that you've met them. The limitations of demonstrating a relationship with god/gods is that no one can demonstrate that it/he/they actually exist.

Let's think about how hard it might be for me to demonstrate the existence of those nurses to you. First, you would need to travel here and meet me. Second, we would need to go to my doctor's office, and we might need to wait as long as three days for it to open. Once there, we would need to ask the receptionist to let us meet both my doctor and his nurses so we could verify that those nurses are his nurses and that he is my doctor. Then, assuming we have not been kicked out or arrested, we could only hope that my doctor and his nurses would be able and willing to come meet us to grant us our very bizarre request. Even if we are so very lucky that they comply and meet us, we would need to have them verify who they are and their relationships to me.

So contrary to what you claim, my demonstrating the existence of my doctor's nurses would be for practical purposes impossible. I have a relationship with them, nevertheless. So the criteria that a genuine relationship with God should be verifiable fails. It is not sensible to expect a real relationship to be verifiable, and that includes relationships with God.

If it's any consolation, though, I would not believe any person has a relationship with God because I see no good reason why God would relate to any individual. He has better things to do than to do something that makes a person look crazy.

[brunumb]

Let's think about how hard it might be for me to demonstrate the existence of those nurses to you.

Unless you have simply made them up, it may be hard but it is at least feasible. Can you suggest how a person having a relationship with God could demonstrate that the God side of their alleged relationship is actually there.

[Paul of Tarsus]

Let's think about how hard it might be for me to demonstrate the existence of those nurses to you.

Unless you have simply made them up, it may be hard but it is at least feasible. Can you suggest how a person having a relationship with God could demonstrate that the God side of their alleged relationship is actually there.

If a person has a real personal relationship with God, I might buy it if they have knowledge or powers that only God can grant to them. If they only know or think they know what any person might say, or if they can only do what a person can do, then I will probably doubt that they have an actual relationship with God. I see no reason to assume they are relating to God if assuming they are merely deluded fits the facts. For example, if a woman claims she has conversations with Christ, and what she says is what she can say without such conversations, then I will probably think she is either lying or mentally ill. Liars and mentally ill people are evident, but God is not so obvious.

I mean no disrespect toward the mentally ill! It's just a fact that mental illness and religiosity are very often indistinguishable.

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to Rational Atheist in post #1]

Many Christians confess a "personal relationship" with God through the Bible. I fail to see how conversations with God can be above and beyond the Bible.

However, people are very diverse and I guess the best way is to ask them how strong their relationship with God is (self-reporting).

Self-report on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-report_study.

One "crazy" way for a demonstrable relationship to God would be for a religious person to show for high immune system count (higher number = stronger relationship). This is though outside convention. That is, low number = much corruption of the body and thus the mind.

Note on mental illness and religion, mental illness is defined here: https://icd.who.int/browse10/2016/en#/V - Mental and behavioural disorders.

Religion has proven historically to carry sound minds in sound bodies. Those who declare themselves their own gods however...

[Tcg]

Religion has proven historically to carry sound minds in sound bodies.

There's plenty of reason to doubt that assertion.




Tcg

[Paul of Tarsus]

One "crazy" way for a demonstrable relationship to God would be for a religious person to show for high immune system count (higher number = stronger relationship). This is though outside convention. That is, low number = much corruption of the body and thus the mind.

I haven't failed to note how trivial these religious-health claims are compared to the grand promises made by Christianity. If I can reign in heaven forever with Jesus, then his granting me good health seems rather inconsequential by comparison. Besides, if heaven is so great, then good health is more of a curse than a blessing because good health will defer longer a person's entrance into heaven by making that person's death happen later. It seems more logical for a heaven-bound person to live a risky, unhealthy lifestyle to shorten the time that person waits for salvation.

Note on mental illness and religion, mental illness is defined here: https://icd.who.int/browse10/2016/en#/V - Mental and behavioural disorders.

Religion has proven historically to carry sound minds in sound bodies. Those who declare themselves their own gods however...

When religion is compared to mental illness I don't think it is being claimed that the religious are raving maniacs who need to be locked in a rubber room. Religiosity is more akin to delusion, a relatively minor mental illness. So Christians, if they are deluded, can live a reasonably stable lifestyle.