Why ask for evidence?

[Paul of Tarsus]

Years ago I was debating a Christian who demanded that I present evidence for what I was saying to him. He agreed to concede I was right if I forked over that evidence. When I gave him the evidence he asked for, he broke his promise still refusing to concede I was right.

This experience prompts me to ask why anybody; Christian, atheist, or anybody else; demands evidence only to ignore or explain away that evidence once it becomes available to them. It seems unlikely that anybody really wants evidence that will falsify what they want to believe, so why ask for that evidence? Based on my experiences with people like the Christian I mention above, the real purpose of demanding evidence in these debates is to try to trip up an ideological opponent hoping he does not have that evidence or that it will be difficult and time-consuming for him to offer it if he does have it.

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #30]

In what I believe was Paul's first thread, I asked for verification of an alleged troublesome event as well:

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #1]

Given that you still seem to be having trouble putting this incident behind you, it may be helpful if you provide a link to where this troublesome encounter took place. That way we can read what took place and provide specific advice on how to put it behind you.


Tcg

No link or any other verifiable evidence was ever provided.


Tcg

Yep.

I mean, I make claims. I swear me up and down the pretty thing is trying to kill me.

"Ah! But what evidence can you present Joey?"

She quit fixing sausage biscuits and set to making me eat oatmeal.

I presented my evidence, and folks can now consider how they might extricate me from me this unfortunate circumstance. Or, they can laugh at my pain. Either way, I presented my data.

[Tcg]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #30]

In what I believe was Paul's first thread, I asked for verification of an alleged troublesome event as well:

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #1]

Given that you still seem to be having trouble putting this incident behind you, it may be helpful if you provide a link to where this troublesome encounter took place. That way we can read what took place and provide specific advice on how to put it behind you.


Tcg

No link or any other verifiable evidence was ever provided.


Tcg

Yep.

I mean, I make claims. I swear me up and down the pretty thing is trying to kill me.

"Ah! But what evidence can you present Joey?"

She quit fixing sausage biscuits and set to making me eat oatmeal.

I presented my evidence, and folks can now consider how they might extricate me from me this unfortunate circumstance. Or, they can laugh at my pain. Either way, I presented my data.

Might I recommend a compromise? Sausage biscuit oatmeal. You won't find it in the vegan isle.

There are other things that are even harder to find like verifiable evidence that supports claims of mistreatment.


Tcg

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 32:

Might I recommend a compromise? Sausage biscuit oatmeal. You won't find it in the vegan isle.

It's so nice to find problem solvers.

There are other things that are even harder to find like verifiable evidence that supports claims of mistreatment.

Did you not read there where she quit fixing sausage biscuits? That alone is mistreatment.

But yeah, I'm beholdeneded to support or retract that claim...

Well, about that, I can't show the claim is truth, othern to tell I'm bout done with me eating the oatmeal.

[Tcg]

From Post 32:

Might I recommend a compromise? Sausage biscuit oatmeal. You won't find it in the vegan isle.

It's so nice to find problem solvers.

There are other things that are even harder to find like verifiable evidence that supports claims of mistreatment.

Did you not read there where she quit fixing sausage biscuits? That alone is mistreatment.

But yeah, I'm beholdeneded to support or retract that claim...

Well, about that, I can't show the claim is truth, othern to tell I'm bout done with me eating the oatmeal.

Oh no, I wasn't referring to your claims of mistreatment. I was referring to other posts that make claims of mistreatment, but never include evidence of such.

If the biscuits you were accustomed to included milk gravy like my grandmom used to make, then I consider your claims justified. Of course sometimes bacon was the meat used to create the gravy. It's another alternative to oatmeal. Perhaps you could sell it as lo-cal.


Tcg

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 32:

Might I recommend a compromise? Sausage biscuit oatmeal. You won't find it in the vegan isle.

It's so nice to find problem solvers.

There are other things that are even harder to find like verifiable evidence that supports claims of mistreatment.

Did you not read there where she quit fixing sausage biscuits? That alone is mistreatment.

But yeah, I'm beholdeneded to support or retract that claim...

Well, about that, I can't show the claim is truth, othern to tell I'm bout done with me eating the oatmeal.

Oh no, I wasn't referring to your claims of mistreatment. I was referring to other posts that make claims of mistreatment, but never include evidence of such.

If the biscuits you were accustomed to included milk gravy like my grandmom used to make, then I consider your claims justified. Of course sometimes bacon was the meat used to create the gravy. It's another alternative to oatmeal. Perhaps you could sell it as lo-cal.


Tcg

You amaze me with your ability to take a notion and just run with it - and not hafta employ tangents to do it.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 10:

A few years ago I was in what was called a "science forum." The people there were extremely rude and often cursed at and engaged in name-calling against those they disagreed with which included me, naturally. Those who did so included one of the moderators. Anyway, somebody there started a thread on whether math is invented or discovered, and I argued the view that math is invented. I soon realized I was in a forum full of math-is-discovered fundamentalists who could not tolerate the math-is-invented heresy, and I was reviled for my attempts to argue my case any evidence I posted ignored. One of them demanded that the thread be shut down, and the rather immoderate moderator was only so happy to comply with that demand for censorship.
...
...

I challenge you to show you speak truth in this regard.

1st challenge.

I point the obserserver to previous challenges I've presented within this thread, where there's the reasonable notion our claimant here is proud to cook him up a goose, he just don't wanna fix him up a ganderful of em.

2nd challenge

I find this thread a fascinating study in "How come that'n there won't do it, what I myself refuse to do?"
Humans. A very intriguing mix of intellectual haughtiness, grandiose pride, and lack of self reflection.

"I'm handsome", said the resident dolt, JoeyKnothead.
"I challenge you to show you speak truth", said that'n there, atrying to determine the truth of the matter.
"Been told I look like Brad Pitt's dog", Joey proudly boasted, unaware of the self-own. Ya know, cause he's a dolt and all.


I propose we can learn a good bit in challenging claims on a debate site, regardless of how upset it makes folks to get em them challenged on em. Often it is, we don't learn us so much about the claims, but a whole heaping bunch about that'n there making em.

What's wrong with a "Well about that"?
Ever have an old lady? I can't count on all my seven fingers and toes how many times I hafta utter me that up just in a day.

Ain't no shame to it. Just fess up as to the nature of the claim, like so...
"Well about that, I know I said I was gonna take out the trash, but I saw a bear in the cans, and..."
"Well about that, squirrels and bears look an awful lot alike and..."
"Well about that, no they don't, but do you know what your sister said about that shirt you had on the other day"?

Ya can carry the well about that's all the way to eternity.

But ignoring challenges to your claims?

Well about that...

3rd challenge

It's just a crying shame our challenged claimant has just up and turned blind.

Y'all that pray, please do you a good bunch of it.

Y'all that challenge folks to show they speak truth,

Well about that!

4th challenge.

I might need some of y'all to help me count. I'm pretty good up to 8 comes after 7, but after that it gets all fuzzy and I run out of fingers and toes.

Maybe I could get me a bucket, and put me a rock in it for each time I challenge these claims. Naw, that won't work if I hafta challenge these claims moren 8 times.

Ain't 8 a fascinating number. Ya might not know it, but it comes after 7 in the list. I swear to god. 6, then 7, then 8. 8's cool too, cause it kinda looks like infinity.

Y'all know infinity, it's how long we're apt to hafta wait for this claimant to take responsibility for their claims.

5th challenge
I remind folks, it's impolite to think folks are liars, but we oughtn get onto ya too much if ya do.

And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't gonna challenge me these claims every day I possibly can.

"Why challenge claims" indeed. When the claimant refuses to respond to challenges to his claims, I caution the obsever against concluding the following possible concludings...

1. They was lying right through their tooth, and hope that by ignoring challenges to their claims, folks'll just forget how lying it was, they were.

2. Claimant has not been educated to what is a lie, and what ain't. In such a circumstance I propose the proper conclusion is to pity the lack of education on that'n there's part. I speak from experience. Got a 8th grade education. Dumber'n the box a box of rocks comes in.

3. Liars dont give a flying fig leaf, they just wanna tell them a lie in some misguided effort to poke fun at folks who won't answer their questions, as they refuse to answer you yours.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 10:

A few years ago I was in what was called a "science forum." The people there were extremely rude and often cursed at and engaged in name-calling against those they disagreed with which included me, naturally. Those who did so included one of the moderators. Anyway, somebody there started a thread on whether math is invented or discovered, and I argued the view that math is invented. I soon realized I was in a forum full of math-is-discovered fundamentalists who could not tolerate the math-is-invented heresy, and I was reviled for my attempts to argue my case any evidence I posted ignored. One of them demanded that the thread be shut down, and the rather immoderate moderator was only so happy to comply with that demand for censorship.
...
...

I challenge you to show you speak truth in this regard.

1st challenge.

I point the obserserver to previous challenges I've presented within this thread, where there's the reasonable notion our claimant here is proud to cook him up a goose, he just don't wanna fix him up a ganderful of em.

2nd challenge

I find this thread a fascinating study in "How come that'n there won't do it, what I myself refuse to do?"
Humans. A very intriguing mix of intellectual haughtiness, grandiose pride, and lack of self reflection.

"I'm handsome", said the resident dolt, JoeyKnothead.
"I challenge you to show you speak truth", said that'n there, atrying to determine the truth of the matter.
"Been told I look like Brad Pitt's dog", Joey proudly boasted, unaware of the self-own. Ya know, cause he's a dolt and all.


I propose we can learn a good bit in challenging claims on a debate site, regardless of how upset it makes folks to get em them challenged on em. Often it is, we don't learn us so much about the claims, but a whole heaping bunch about that'n there making em.

What's wrong with a "Well about that"?
Ever have an old lady? I can't count on all my seven fingers and toes how many times I hafta utter me that up just in a day.

Ain't no shame to it. Just fess up as to the nature of the claim, like so...
"Well about that, I know I said I was gonna take out the trash, but I saw a bear in the cans, and..."
"Well about that, squirrels and bears look an awful lot alike and..."
"Well about that, no they don't, but do you know what your sister said about that shirt you had on the other day"?

Ya can carry the well about that's all the way to eternity.

But ignoring challenges to your claims?

Well about that...

3rd challenge

It's just a crying shame our challenged claimant has just up and turned blind.

Y'all that pray, please do you a good bunch of it.

Y'all that challenge folks to show they speak truth,

Well about that!

4th challenge.

I might need some of y'all to help me count. I'm pretty good up to 8 comes after 7, but after that it gets all fuzzy and I run out of fingers and toes.

Maybe I could get me a bucket, and put me a rock in it for each time I challenge these claims. Naw, that won't work if I hafta challenge these claims moren 8 times.

Ain't 8 a fascinating number. Ya might not know it, but it comes after 7 in the list. I swear to god. 6, then 7, then 8. 8's cool too, cause it kinda looks like infinity.

Y'all know infinity, it's how long we're apt to hafta wait for this claimant to take responsibility for their claims.

5th challenge
I remind folks, it's impolite to think folks are liars, but we oughtn get onto ya too much if ya do.

And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't gonna challenge me these claims every day I possibly can.

"Why challenge claims" indeed. When the claimant refuses to respond to challenges to his claims, I caution the obsever against concluding the following possible concludings...

1. They was lying right through their tooth, and hope that by ignoring challenges to their claims, folks'll just forget how lying it was, they were.

2. Claimant has not been educated to what is a lie, and what ain't. In such a circumstance I propose the proper conclusion is to pity the lack of education on that'n there's part. I speak from experience. Got a 8th grade education. Dumber'n the box a box of rocks comes in.

3. Liars dont give a flying fig leaf, they just wanna tell them a lie in some misguided effort to poke fun at folks who won't answer their questions, as they refuse to answer you yours.

6th challenge
Folks are cautioned against accusing our claimant of being a liar, but won't get in trouble for thinking it.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 10:

A few years ago I was in what was called a "science forum." The people there were extremely rude and often cursed at and engaged in name-calling against those they disagreed with which included me, naturally. Those who did so included one of the moderators. Anyway, somebody there started a thread on whether math is invented or discovered, and I argued the view that math is invented. I soon realized I was in a forum full of math-is-discovered fundamentalists who could not tolerate the math-is-invented heresy, and I was reviled for my attempts to argue my case any evidence I posted ignored. One of them demanded that the thread be shut down, and the rather immoderate moderator was only so happy to comply with that demand for censorship.
...
...

I challenge you to show you speak truth in this regard.

1st challenge.

I point the obserserver to previous challenges I've presented within this thread, where there's the reasonable notion our claimant here is proud to cook him up a goose, he just don't wanna fix him up a ganderful of em.

2nd challenge

I find this thread a fascinating study in "How come that'n there won't do it, what I myself refuse to do?"
Humans. A very intriguing mix of intellectual haughtiness, grandiose pride, and lack of self reflection.

"I'm handsome", said the resident dolt, JoeyKnothead.
"I challenge you to show you speak truth", said that'n there, atrying to determine the truth of the matter.
"Been told I look like Brad Pitt's dog", Joey proudly boasted, unaware of the self-own. Ya know, cause he's a dolt and all.


I propose we can learn a good bit in challenging claims on a debate site, regardless of how upset it makes folks to get em them challenged on em. Often it is, we don't learn us so much about the claims, but a whole heaping bunch about that'n there making em.

What's wrong with a "Well about that"?
Ever have an old lady? I can't count on all my seven fingers and toes how many times I hafta utter me that up just in a day.

Ain't no shame to it. Just fess up as to the nature of the claim, like so...
"Well about that, I know I said I was gonna take out the trash, but I saw a bear in the cans, and..."
"Well about that, squirrels and bears look an awful lot alike and..."
"Well about that, no they don't, but do you know what your sister said about that shirt you had on the other day"?

Ya can carry the well about that's all the way to eternity.

But ignoring challenges to your claims?

Well about that...

3rd challenge

It's just a crying shame our challenged claimant has just up and turned blind.

Y'all that pray, please do you a good bunch of it.

Y'all that challenge folks to show they speak truth,

Well about that!

4th challenge.

I might need some of y'all to help me count. I'm pretty good up to 8 comes after 7, but after that it gets all fuzzy and I run out of fingers and toes.

Maybe I could get me a bucket, and put me a rock in it for each time I challenge these claims. Naw, that won't work if I hafta challenge these claims moren 8 times.

Ain't 8 a fascinating number. Ya might not know it, but it comes after 7 in the list. I swear to god. 6, then 7, then 8. 8's cool too, cause it kinda looks like infinity.

Y'all know infinity, it's how long we're apt to hafta wait for this claimant to take responsibility for their claims.

5th challenge
I remind folks, it's impolite to think folks are liars, but we oughtn get onto ya too much if ya do.

And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't gonna challenge me these claims every day I possibly can.

"Why challenge claims" indeed. When the claimant refuses to respond to challenges to his claims, I caution the obsever against concluding the following possible concludings...

1. They was lying right through their tooth, and hope that by ignoring challenges to their claims, folks'll just forget how lying it was, they were.

2. Claimant has not been educated to what is a lie, and what ain't. In such a circumstance I propose the proper conclusion is to pity the lack of education on that'n there's part. I speak from experience. Got a 8th grade education. Dumber'n the box a box of rocks comes in.

3. Liars dont give a flying fig leaf, they just wanna tell them a lie in some misguided effort to poke fun at folks who won't answer their questions, as they refuse to answer you yours.

6th challenge
Folks are cautioned against accusing our claimant of being a liar, but won't get in trouble for thinking it.

7th challenge.

Now why might it be a claimant would dodge responsibility for their claims?

Could it be, SATAN?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 10:

A few years ago I was in what was called a "science forum." The people there were extremely rude and often cursed at and engaged in name-calling against those they disagreed with which included me, naturally. Those who did so included one of the moderators. Anyway, somebody there started a thread on whether math is invented or discovered, and I argued the view that math is invented. I soon realized I was in a forum full of math-is-discovered fundamentalists who could not tolerate the math-is-invented heresy, and I was reviled for my attempts to argue my case any evidence I posted ignored. One of them demanded that the thread be shut down, and the rather immoderate moderator was only so happy to comply with that demand for censorship.
...
...

I challenge you to show you speak truth in this regard.

1st challenge.

I point the obserserver to previous challenges I've presented within this thread, where there's the reasonable notion our claimant here is proud to cook him up a goose, he just don't wanna fix him up a ganderful of em.

2nd challenge

I find this thread a fascinating study in "How come that'n there won't do it, what I myself refuse to do?"
Humans. A very intriguing mix of intellectual haughtiness, grandiose pride, and lack of self reflection.

"I'm handsome", said the resident dolt, JoeyKnothead.
"I challenge you to show you speak truth", said that'n there, atrying to determine the truth of the matter.
"Been told I look like Brad Pitt's dog", Joey proudly boasted, unaware of the self-own. Ya know, cause he's a dolt and all.


I propose we can learn a good bit in challenging claims on a debate site, regardless of how upset it makes folks to get em them challenged on em. Often it is, we don't learn us so much about the claims, but a whole heaping bunch about that'n there making em.

What's wrong with a "Well about that"?
Ever have an old lady? I can't count on all my seven fingers and toes how many times I hafta utter me that up just in a day.

Ain't no shame to it. Just fess up as to the nature of the claim, like so...
"Well about that, I know I said I was gonna take out the trash, but I saw a bear in the cans, and..."
"Well about that, squirrels and bears look an awful lot alike and..."
"Well about that, no they don't, but do you know what your sister said about that shirt you had on the other day"?

Ya can carry the well about that's all the way to eternity.

But ignoring challenges to your claims?

Well about that...

3rd challenge

It's just a crying shame our challenged claimant has just up and turned blind.

Y'all that pray, please do you a good bunch of it.

Y'all that challenge folks to show they speak truth,

Well about that!

4th challenge.

I might need some of y'all to help me count. I'm pretty good up to 8 comes after 7, but after that it gets all fuzzy and I run out of fingers and toes.

Maybe I could get me a bucket, and put me a rock in it for each time I challenge these claims. Naw, that won't work if I hafta challenge these claims moren 8 times.

Ain't 8 a fascinating number. Ya might not know it, but it comes after 7 in the list. I swear to god. 6, then 7, then 8. 8's cool too, cause it kinda looks like infinity.

Y'all know infinity, it's how long we're apt to hafta wait for this claimant to take responsibility for their claims.

5th challenge
I remind folks, it's impolite to think folks are liars, but we oughtn get onto ya too much if ya do.

And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't gonna challenge me these claims every day I possibly can.

"Why challenge claims" indeed. When the claimant refuses to respond to challenges to his claims, I caution the obsever against concluding the following possible concludings...

1. They was lying right through their tooth, and hope that by ignoring challenges to their claims, folks'll just forget how lying it was, they were.

2. Claimant has not been educated to what is a lie, and what ain't. In such a circumstance I propose the proper conclusion is to pity the lack of education on that'n there's part. I speak from experience. Got a 8th grade education. Dumber'n the box a box of rocks comes in.

3. Liars dont give a flying fig leaf, they just wanna tell them a lie in some misguided effort to poke fun at folks who won't answer their questions, as they refuse to answer you yours.

6th challenge
Folks are cautioned against accusing our claimant of being a liar, but won't get in trouble for thinking it.

7th challenge.

Now why might it be a claimant would dodge responsibility for their claims?

Could it be, SATAN?

8th challenge
Really?

This many challenges?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 10:

A few years ago I was in what was called a "science forum." The people there were extremely rude and often cursed at and engaged in name-calling against those they disagreed with which included me, naturally. Those who did so included one of the moderators. Anyway, somebody there started a thread on whether math is invented or discovered, and I argued the view that math is invented. I soon realized I was in a forum full of math-is-discovered fundamentalists who could not tolerate the math-is-invented heresy, and I was reviled for my attempts to argue my case any evidence I posted ignored. One of them demanded that the thread be shut down, and the rather immoderate moderator was only so happy to comply with that demand for censorship.
...
...

I challenge you to show you speak truth in this regard.

1st challenge.

I point the obserserver to previous challenges I've presented within this thread, where there's the reasonable notion our claimant here is proud to cook him up a goose, he just don't wanna fix him up a ganderful of em.

2nd challenge

I find this thread a fascinating study in "How come that'n there won't do it, what I myself refuse to do?"
Humans. A very intriguing mix of intellectual haughtiness, grandiose pride, and lack of self reflection.

"I'm handsome", said the resident dolt, JoeyKnothead.
"I challenge you to show you speak truth", said that'n there, atrying to determine the truth of the matter.
"Been told I look like Brad Pitt's dog", Joey proudly boasted, unaware of the self-own. Ya know, cause he's a dolt and all.


I propose we can learn a good bit in challenging claims on a debate site, regardless of how upset it makes folks to get em them challenged on em. Often it is, we don't learn us so much about the claims, but a whole heaping bunch about that'n there making em.

What's wrong with a "Well about that"?
Ever have an old lady? I can't count on all my seven fingers and toes how many times I hafta utter me that up just in a day.

Ain't no shame to it. Just fess up as to the nature of the claim, like so...
"Well about that, I know I said I was gonna take out the trash, but I saw a bear in the cans, and..."
"Well about that, squirrels and bears look an awful lot alike and..."
"Well about that, no they don't, but do you know what your sister said about that shirt you had on the other day"?

Ya can carry the well about that's all the way to eternity.

But ignoring challenges to your claims?

Well about that...

3rd challenge

It's just a crying shame our challenged claimant has just up and turned blind.

Y'all that pray, please do you a good bunch of it.

Y'all that challenge folks to show they speak truth,

Well about that!

4th challenge.

I might need some of y'all to help me count. I'm pretty good up to 8 comes after 7, but after that it gets all fuzzy and I run out of fingers and toes.

Maybe I could get me a bucket, and put me a rock in it for each time I challenge these claims. Naw, that won't work if I hafta challenge these claims moren 8 times.

Ain't 8 a fascinating number. Ya might not know it, but it comes after 7 in the list. I swear to god. 6, then 7, then 8. 8's cool too, cause it kinda looks like infinity.

Y'all know infinity, it's how long we're apt to hafta wait for this claimant to take responsibility for their claims.

5th challenge
I remind folks, it's impolite to think folks are liars, but we oughtn get onto ya too much if ya do.

And I'd be lying if I said I wasn't gonna challenge me these claims every day I possibly can.

"Why challenge claims" indeed. When the claimant refuses to respond to challenges to his claims, I caution the obsever against concluding the following possible concludings...

1. They was lying right through their tooth, and hope that by ignoring challenges to their claims, folks'll just forget how lying it was, they were.

2. Claimant has not been educated to what is a lie, and what ain't. In such a circumstance I propose the proper conclusion is to pity the lack of education on that'n there's part. I speak from experience. Got a 8th grade education. Dumber'n the box a box of rocks comes in.

3. Liars dont give a flying fig leaf, they just wanna tell them a lie in some misguided effort to poke fun at folks who won't answer their questions, as they refuse to answer you yours.

6th challenge
Folks are cautioned against accusing our claimant of being a liar, but won't get in trouble for thinking it.

7th challenge.

Now why might it be a claimant would dodge responsibility for their claims?

Could it be, SATAN?

8th challenge
Really?

This many challenges?

9th challenge[

Franlky, I've given up on this as a debate site.

Now I'm just set to troll.


This'n here makes claims he's not hold to honor, then has the audacity to open a thread about lies.


To heck with it.

If this'n can lie his face off, we aint in debate. We're just another bunch of MAGAts.