God's Ways

[Paul of Tarsus]

Many have said that "the Lord works in mysterious ways." If we were to outline the ways of the Christian God, then how would we describe those ways? Those ways are indeed often mysterious, and here's a partial outline of what I have been told about God and his ways:

1. He created the world, but when that world proved to be imperfect, he blamed us for its faults.
2. Although he has worked countless wonders, he never bothered to do so under circumstances in which we can all be confident he did so.
3. If we doubt any of those miracles that we cannot be sure happened, he will punish us for doubting.
4. To let us know he loves us he sent his son Jesus into the world demanding that Jesus die a horrible death.
5. He very often neglects details.
6. When people argue about him he doesn't bother to resolve the issues.
7. He "chose" the Jews never bothering to explain what's special about them leaving many of them wishing he had chosen somebody else.
8. Although his son Jesus reputedly despised commercialism especially commercialism tied to places where people worship God, God ended up creating a religion that makes very good use of commercialism making many members of that religion very wealthy.
9. He prefers to talk to men.
10. He can make people act as if they are mentally ill.

[JehovahsWitness]

8. Although his son Jesus reputedly despised commercialism especially commercialism tied to places where people worship God, God ended up creating a religion that makes very good use of commercialism making many members of that religion very wealthy.

Where is your proof that GOD did anything, let alone created a religion? Is this a belief statement?






JW

[JoeyKnothead]

From post 21:

Where is your proof that GOD did anything, let alone created a religion? Is this a belief statement?

Y'all ever come across y'all, a cough ya couldn't get shed of?

What, on god's green earth would have a Christian asking for proof of a god not nary one can show exists?

[Tcg]

8. Although his son Jesus reputedly despised commercialism especially commercialism tied to places where people worship God, God ended up creating a religion that makes very good use of commercialism making many members of that religion very wealthy.

Where is your proof that GOD did anything, let alone created a religion? Is this a belief statement?

JW

Those are two very good questions. What is the proof that GOD has ever done anything? Do claims that he has ever done something ever amount to anything more than belief statements?


Tcg

[Paul of Tarsus]

8. Although his son Jesus reputedly despised commercialism especially commercialism tied to places where people worship God, God ended up creating a religion that makes very good use of commercialism making many members of that religion very wealthy.

Where is your proof that GOD did anything...

You've got me there, JW; I have no proof at all that God did anything.

...let alone created a religion? Is this a belief statement?

Again, I openly concede that I have no proof that God did anything, and that would include his creating any religion. Nevertheless, some people say that God used a Charles Taze Russell to start a new sect that says it is founded on the Bible. This sect tells us that regarding God using Russell:

As Jehovah’s Witnesses today review the work that he did, the things he taught, his reason for teaching them, and the outcome, they have no doubt that Charles Taze Russell was, indeed, used by God in a special way and at a significant time.

So if what we are told here is true, it appears that God is still busy creating new religions or at least reforming older ones. It seems as if whatever he does goes bad eventually, and he must either tune it up or just let it continue to limp along. But if any of his religions are to survive, one thing is sure to go on: the need for funding. God's followers can look to him for eternal life, but if they need money, they must inquire into other sources.

[JehovahsWitness]

If we knew what Jesus was doing prior to the time we are told he started his ministry, then that would no doubt shed a lot of light on why he did what he did and where he got his ideas.

That is a possibility but one based on the unproven and textually improbable assumption that he did or said anything of note during those early years. If we believe the narrative, Jesus own family and townsfolk were astounded by Jesus discourses and puzzled how he came to know such things.

MARK 6: 2

When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard Him were astonished. “Where did this man get these ideas?” they asked. “What is this wisdom He has been given? And how can He perform such miracles? 3 Isn’t this the carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? Aren’t His sisters here with us as well?” And they took offense at Him

The only thing Jesus had done of note up to that point was be a carpenter. If Jesus had been revealing his divine origins, performing miracles and explaining his plans for the world from his childhood up, it seems unlikely that his kinsmen would have had such a reaction. Indeed his public ministry as an adult was so out of character, members of his own family thought he had lost his mind.




CONCLUSION : It seems reasonable to conclude that as a child Jesus' actually did nothing that would have shed any light at all on why he did what he did and where he got his ideas. And if this was the case, the narrators omission was not only deliberate but strategically logical.

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

JESUS , CHRISTIANITY, and ....MESSIANIC PROPHECY

[JehovahsWitness]

So if what we are told here is true, it appears that God is still busy creating new religions or at least reforming older ones.

Most people, are making faith based statements of beliefs when it comes to what God says or does. Are you saying you believe them ? If so, would that mean you believe in God, and believe those that tell you what he has done? If you don't believe the people that make such claims ( ie. you don't believe God has created religions because you have no belief he exists) what exactly is your gripe? That a non-existent God that has done nothing did it badly? Isn't that like complaining that a meal that was never cooked had too much salt?


Clarification appreciate,

JW

[Paul of Tarsus]

If we knew what Jesus was doing prior to the time we are told he started his ministry, then that would no doubt shed a lot of light on why he did what he did and where he got his ideas.

That is a possibility but one based on the unproven and textually improbable assumption that he did or said anything of note during those early years. If we believe the narrative, Jesus own family and townsfolk were astounded by Jesus discourses and puzzled how he came to know such things.

If Jesus never said or did anything notable prior to his missionary activities, then such a fact would give us a better idea of what may have motivated him to start his ministry. Something might have suddenly happened when he was thirty years old that prompted him to start preaching. It may have been the death of his father, for instance.

While it is obviously unproven that Jesus did anything to attract attention when he was younger, it is by no means improbable that he didn't do anything to attract attention. It does seem improbable to me that he suddenly had a major character transformation, an assumption of your own that is every bit as unproven as my assumption.

In any case, the Christian God never bothered with revealing the details of Jesus' life prior to his ministry, an omission that has us arguing to this day.

So if what we are told here is true, it appears that God is still busy creating new religions or at least reforming older ones.

Most people, are making faith based statements of beliefs when it comes to what God says or does. Are you saying you believe them ?

Believe them about what? Obviously many people state what their religious beliefs are. I'm generally skeptical about religious claims, but I think a lot of people do believe what they are saying.

If so, would that mean you believe in God, and believe those that tell you what he has done? If you don't believe the people that make such claims ( ie. you don't believe God has created religions because you have no belief he exists) what exactly is your gripe? That a non-existent God that has done nothing did it badly? Isn't that like complaining that a meal that was never cooked had too much salt?

Sheesh--for a guy who dances around questions, you sure ask a lot of them. So at this point I'm going to take up your practice of not answering questions.

[JoeyKnothead]

8. Although his son Jesus reputedly despised commercialism especially commercialism tied to places where people worship God, God ended up creating a religion that makes very good use of commercialism making many members of that religion very wealthy.

Where is your proof that GOD did anything, let alone created a religion? Is this a belief statement?

JW

Those are two very good questions. What is the proof that GOD has ever done anything? Do claims that he has ever done something ever amount to anything more than belief statements?


Tcg

I think we have enough data, sound data, to come to the reasonable and rational conclusion that for some claimants, poor things, they're just blind to any questioning of their claims.

[JehovahsWitness]

.... at this point I'm going to take up your practice of not answering questions.

A wise decision on your part; when face with an untenable position retreat is a virtue. As you have admitted you have no evidence God created bad religions or good ones . Thus you yourself have underminesd your own accusation. If you have a claim to make about religion feel free to make it (preferably without innuendo we have to un package before addressing), but accusing a God you don't believe exist of a something you dont believe he did is, in my opinion, a lesson in futility.

Of course you are free to give your opinion on the God of the bible, but that remains as much an opinion as those of religionist that worship Him.


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

If Jesus never said or did anything notable prior to his missionary activities, then such a fact would give us a better idea of what may have motivated him to start his ministry. Something might have suddenly happened when he was thirty years old that prompted him to start preaching. It may have been the death of his father, for instance.

The source text does present Jesus baptism as the occasion of a supernatural experience, what happened just prior to that event is anyone's guess. It may well have been the death of Joseph although, as has been noted by several commentaries, Jesus was identified by his townsmen as "son of Mary" with no mention of his father. This seems to indicate Joseph had been dead for some time. Time enough for him to be known as Mary's rather than Joseph's son and evidently time enough for him to have built his own reputation as a carpenter (as opposed to "the carpenter's son")

It does seem improbable to me that he suddenly had a major character transformation, an assumption of your own that is every bit as unproven as my assumption.

All assumptions are not equal. As I pointed out, the narrative itself indicates that when he started his ministry it was surpising and even disturbing to those that knew him. That much is recorded. If he had previously been voicing revelations or performing miracles logically this would not have been the case. So it is reasonable to assume at the very least he was not known within his community as someone extraordinary. Indeed, his own brothers had difficulty accepting his Messiahship, so it seems evident they did not see him, as they were growing up, as a big brother that raised such expectations.

Are we missing details? Of course! Are we missing interestjng details that would have beeen enlightening? No doubt. But the information that has been recorded indicates we are probably not missing anything paramount.