Job

[nobspeople]

Was the story of Job, in the bible, a real story (God really allowed these things to happen to Job) or was it a story meant to convey a message?

If it was to convey a message, what's the message?

If it was a real story, why did God have to do this if he knew Job's character?


Additionally, how do Christians reconcile the Christian view of Job with Job in other religions? Or do they?

[Diagoras]

I went looking online for some background to Job and found this informative article:

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/MAGAZINE ... -1.5434183

The main points being that the unusual language used in the Book of Job, coupled with a few archaeological clues, gives only an approximate date of origin. There’s a reasonable case to be made that this is simply a story: copied from earlier legends about ‘upright men’, in similar ways to other biblical stories borrowing and adapting from earlier works.

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

My view is that: Before Job is done, life is awful. After job is done, life is rich! I think it's about job ethics, actually.

[Tcg]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

My view is that: Before Job is done, life is awful. After job is done, life is rich! I think it's about job ethics, actually.

It wasn't very rich for Job's first set of children. In fact, they were all dead.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

Was the story of Job, in the bible, a real story (God really allowed these things to happen to Job) or was it a story meant to convey a message?

• Yes. In other words I believe the story presented real historical events and that it was recorded to convey a message.

If it was to convey a message, what's the message?

• That our personal integrity to JEHOVAH God has high value.

• That the Devil is a real individual that can and does cause great human suffering.

• That God rewards the faithful.

If it was a real story, why did God have to do this if he knew Job's character?

• To publically prove Satan a liar and to allow Job to prove clear his good name.

RELATED POSTS

Was Job perfect ?
viewtopic.php?p=753100#p753100

Why did God allow Job to suffer so?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 20#p335120

Who was God proving Jobs integrity to?
viewtopic.php?p=1041836#p1041836

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

ORIGINAL SIN , THE STORY OF JOB and ...HUMAN SUFFERING

[Tcg]

Was the story of Job, in the bible, a real story (God really allowed these things to happen to Job) or was it a story meant to convey a message?

• Yes. In other words I believe the story presented real historical events and that it was recorded to convey a message.

You weren't asked what you believe. The question asked is if it is a real story. Your belief is irrelevant to this question. Do you have an answer to the question asked?


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

You weren't asked what you believe. The question asked is if it is a real story. Your belief is irrelevant to this question. Do you have an answer to the question asked?


Tcg

Yes, I do have an anwser to the question asked: my answer is what I believe. If my answer is inapproriate I do believe there is a reporting system that will have it removed. Feel free to use it.



Until it is remove by a moderator my answer stands,



JW

[Tcg]

You weren't asked what you believe. The question asked is if it is a real story. Your belief is irrelevant to this question. Do you have an answer to the question asked?


Tcg

Yes, I do have an anwser to the question. My answer is what I believe. If my answer is inapproriate I do believe there is a reportant system that will have it removed. Feel free to use it.

Until it is remove by a moderator my answer stands,

JW

As I've already explained, the question asked is not what you or anyone else believes. The question asked is if it is a real story. What you or anyone else believes is irrelevant to the question asked.

Not every objection to a poster's flawed reply is a suggestion that the flawed answer violates forum rules. As can be seen by my replies, I've certainly not suggested such. I'm not sure whether your diversion amounts to a straw man or a red herring. In either case, it doesn't address the fallacy I've identified.


Tcg

[nobspeople]

Was the story of Job, in the bible, a real story (God really allowed these things to happen to Job) or was it a story meant to convey a message?

• Yes. In other words I believe the story presented real historical events and that it was recorded to convey a message.

If it was to convey a message, what's the message?

• That our personal integrity to JEHOVAH God has high value.

• That the Devil is a real individual that can and does cause great human suffering.

• That God rewards the faithful.

If it was a real story, why did God have to do this if he knew Job's character?

• To publically prove Satan a liar and to allow Job to prove clear his good name.

RELATED POSTS

Was Job perfect ?
viewtopic.php?p=753100#p753100

Why did God allow Job to suffer so?http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 20#p335120

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

ORIGINAL SIN , THE STORY OF JOB and ...HUMAN SUFFERING

Thanks for your opinion on the matter.
I wonder why such a supreme, creative and capable being such as God would need to prove anything. And to whom?
Surely, God would be capable of so much more.
Some may say God needed to 'relate' to humanity (bringing down understanding a notch, so to speak). Still, it makes me wonder why God wouldn't be able to prove a point without resorting to such 'human-like' actions. I suppose many people have lowered their expectation of said supreme being enough to justify it. To me, that's concerning.

[Difflugia]

It wasn't very rich for Job's first set of children. In fact, they were all dead.

To be fair, this point doesn't argue against the story of Job being an ethical tale, but it does argue against the story being inspired of an eternal god with a timeless sense of morality and the value of a human being.

My reading of Job is that though even the most faithful may suffer hardships for reasons that are inscrutable to those of us in the mortal realm, those that remain faithful even during the most trying times will ultimately be rewarded in this life.

The apparently archaic set of values reminds me of Judges 19 (the concubine left to the mercy of criminals, then cut up and mailed to Israelite tribes as a message). The meaning of the story is clear as an allegory about the value of hospitality and the consequences of abrograting ones duty as a host, but it's presented in a way that it (apparently unintentionally) offends against the values of more modern readers. Over a thousand years ago, rabbinic commentators struggled with the man's apparent callousness being otherwise unaddressed by what they considered to be divine revelation, often reverting to victim-blaming by blaming the concubine's leaving for her own subsequent death. In fact, it looks like a scribe changed the language of the Hebrew at some point, changing "was angry with" (as it is in the Septuagint and Latin translations, suggesting that the change was subsequent to the fourth century CE) in 19:2 to "was unfaithful to" (as it stands in the Masoretic texts).

The striking thing about the Job narrative and the dead-and-replaced children is that the new children (equal in number and surpassing the quality of those lost) are described in glowing terms with no mention of mourning for the ones that perished. In terms of historical accuracy, this same part of the narrative hints at the implausibility of the story. Job's children were adults when they died (each had his own house). Even if we discount the otherwise implausible 140 years that he lived as an acceptable embellishment, if he and his wife had children at every single opportunity until they had the first ten, they must have been pushing sixty by the time the youngest was an adult, but they still found the vigor to have ten more children after that.