Is Forrest Gump's Mum Going to Hell?

[Purple Knight]

There's a scene in Forrest Gump where his mum trades sexual favours with the principal of the school in exchange for her mentally handicapped (by only 5 IQ points under the required 80) son to be able to attend normal classes. I've never believed in anything really and when I saw the film at a young age, I thought, how horrible a thing, what a disgusting thing that she would do, so her son can have a better chance at a normal life. I considered her a hero. I even thought, I would not do such a thing in that position. Just too gross.

Biblically, however, sex is pretty well sacred.

Question for Debate: Is sacrificing your own body in a sexual way, but entirely for the selfless good of someone else, a heroic or an evil act?

(The thread title was intentionally sensational. I understand that in Christianity, doing something wrong or even evil does not automatically mean you burn in Hell. I quite understand about forgiveness. My question is whether this is something she needs to be forgiven for.)

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

Is Forrest Gump's mum going to Hell?

I've yet to see a compelling argument that there's a Hell, and that folks go to it.

And she's a fictional character, so that.

There's a scene in Forrest Gump where his mum trades sexual favours with the principal of the school in exchange for her mentally handicapped (by only 5 IQ points under the required 80)...
...

I don't like folks who brag about their high IQs.

...
Biblically, however, sex is pretty well sacred.

Biblically, scant little of it can be shown to be truthful.

Question for Debate: Is sacrificing your own body in a sexual way, but entirely for the selfless good of someone else, a heroic or an evil act?
...

If the pretty thing says she won't fix up supper lest I sex her up, I'll take that hit for the greater good.

I don't judge anyone for using sex for their aims, or just having it, long as nobody's being raped into it.

[Tcg]

There's a scene in Forrest Gump where his mum trades sexual favours with the principal of the school in exchange for her mentally handicapped (by only 5 IQ points under the required 80) son to be able to attend normal classes. I've never believed in anything really and when I saw the film at a young age, I thought, how horrible a thing, what a disgusting thing that she would do, so her son can have a better chance at a normal life. I considered her a hero. I even thought, I would not do such a thing in that position. Just too gross.

Biblically, however, sex is pretty well sacred.

Question for Debate: Is sacrificing your own body in a sexual way, but entirely for the selfless good of someone else, a heroic or an evil act?

(The thread title was intentionally sensational. I understand that in Christianity, doing something wrong or even evil does not automatically mean you burn in Hell. I quite understand about forgiveness. My question is whether this is something she needs to be forgiven for.)

If we're gonna speak biblically, the bible says that love covers a multitude of sins. So if Ms. Gump did anything wrong, her love for her son's got it covered.


Tcg

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #1]

Is sacrificing your own body in a sexual way, but entirely for the selfless good of someone else, a heroic or an evil act?

I was just going to mention the same thing as tcg, but he beat me to it. Another example would be a prostitute who sells her body so as to feed/care for her household (a child, parents, siblings, loved ones, etc). She is acting out of love for others, and love covers over a multitude of sins.

(granted, if Ms. Gump's action had unjustly bumped another child out of their place, then there would be no love being shown to that other child)


**

I think this is secondary to your point, but: hell is not a place of punishment and eternal torment; it is just the world of the dead; the dead in that place are conscious of nothing, but are asleep and awaiting the resurrection of the dead. Not going to debate that on here (will post links to other debates if requested); I just wanted to make that clear.



Peace again!

[Purple Knight]

I was just going to mention the same thing as tcg, but he beat me to it. Another example would be a prostitute who sells her body so as to feed/care for her household (a child, parents, siblings, loved ones, etc). She is acting out of love for others, and love covers over a multitude of sins.

If we're gonna speak biblically, the bible says that love covers a multitude of sins.

Does it really? I'm not doubting you, it's just I did read it and don't happen to recall that bit. If it does say that, that seems problematic in other ways. More problematic, actually. Another 90's movie reference just for bad taste: Does this mean Andy Dufrane is innocent, for real innocent, even if he had really shot his wife and her lover in cold blood?

I would guess that when love isn't pure, when it's mixed in with hate, it would no longer cover the sin. But still, if we didn't love our mates, that kind of crime would never occur. People wouldn't care that their spouse slept with somebody else, certainly not enough to risk prison time.

If the pretty thing says she won't fix up supper lest I sex her up, I'll take that hit for the greater good.

I understand that a little bit of quid pro quo happens in every relationship, and is the basis for certain advertisements about diamonds, but I don't really like it. Still, I accept it as part of the human condition and not a wrong.

I do not accept the Vote Trump Get Dumped movement, wherein women were encouraged to withhold sex unless their partners changed their minds and voted for the right guy. I admit I'm not sure why I'm drawing the line there, but that's abuse. I also admit I'm cognitively dissonant because I don't generally argue that people should hold back certain methods when they believe morality itself is at stake. It just seems like abuse to me.

I don't judge anyone for using sex for their aims, or just having it, long as nobody's being raped into it.

This isn't really Mrs. Gump's fault, but I do think that particular situation probably qualifies as rape. Had the principal initiated it, holding her child's status over her head and demanding sex, it certainly would have been rape, but he didn't. She instead asked, I would say suggestively, if there was anything at all that could be done about five little points. She certainly didn't wish to have sex with him, so perhaps she... raped herself...? No, no, that's a contradiction in terms, isn't it?

I don't like folks who brag about their high IQs.

Blast it! Where's that cartoon mouth zipper I ordered off Amazon?! I just opened the package! Now I can't bloody find the thing! If I didn't have such disproportionately high function in the complex reasoning bits of my brain perhaps I could keep track of-!

GAH!!!

...It was in my left hand.

[Tcg]

I was just going to mention the same thing as tcg, but he beat me to it. Another example would be a prostitute who sells her body so as to feed/care for her household (a child, parents, siblings, loved ones, etc). She is acting out of love for others, and love covers over a multitude of sins.

If we're gonna speak biblically, the bible says that love covers a multitude of sins.

Does it really? I'm not doubting you, it's just I did read it and don't happen to recall that bit. If it does say that, that seems problematic in other ways. More problematic, actually. Another 90's movie reference just for bad taste: Does this mean Andy Dufrane is innocent, for real innocent, even if he had really shot his wife and her lover in cold blood?

Yep, it really does:

1 Peter 4:8 Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

I don't get the connection between Gump and Dufrane.


Tcg

[Purple Knight]

Yep, it really does:

1 Peter 4:8 Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

Alright, now I remember that bit. I also remember not understanding it the first time around, and I don't quite understand it now either. I understand you, TCG, when you tell me that it "covers" the sins because you speak English and I know within reasonability what you're saying. I've come to not exactly trust that the Bible means what it most immediately seems to mean especially when it's vague. The example that comes to mind is the punishing blasphemers and their children to the third and fourth generation. It immediately seems to mean punishing children of blasphemers even if they themselves are innocent of blasphemy, but JW said it meant that the children were also blasphemers and I admit that it could also be read that way.

I don't get the connection between Gump and Dufrane.

If love just means you're not really committing a sin, even someone who really had shot and killed his wife and his wife's lover, wouldn't be guilty, at least not of sin. There's not much of a connection except that they're both 90's movies.

[Tcg]

Yep, it really does:

If love just means you're not really committing a sin, even someone who really had shot and killed his wife and his wife's lover, wouldn't be guilty, at least not of sin. There's not much of a connection except that they're both 90's movies.

I'm not sure how shooting and killing one's wife and her lover would be an act of love that benefits someone else. Ms. Gump acted out of love to benefit her son. Beyond that, according to the movie, Dufrane truly was innocent.


Tcg

[Purple Knight]

I'm not sure how shooting and killing one's wife and her lover would be an act of love that benefits someone else. Ms. Gump acted out of love to benefit her son. Beyond that, according to the movie, Dufrane truly was innocent.

Yes he was, that was why I tried to joke that he'd be "for real innocent" but it flopped. If the rule is that the act must benefit someone else and can do no harm, I am certainly capable of understanding that, I'm just doubtful that the passage in question actually says that.

In fact, this reference says it doesn't say that.

https://www.bibleref.com/1-Peter/4/1-Peter-4-8.html

It says (I think it says; it's vague too, honestly) that it doesn't mean that.

Finally, loving each other in this way covers a multitude of sins. We need to be careful with this statement. This doesn't mean that our acts of love for each other can earn God's forgiveness. Nor does Peter mean to imply that we are paying our sins off through good works. That would contradict what Peter and other New Testament writers clearly teach: that our sins are paid for by Christ's death on the cross, and forgiveness for sin comes only through trusting in Him.

Rather, the idea that our love for each other covers a multitude of sins relates to our imperfection. Christians are not yet sinless. We are not perfect. We have set the course of our lives away from sin, but we still fail to obey sometimes. We make mistakes, even when we mean well. Love for each other includes forgiving each other, overlooking past hurts, and building each other up when we fall. It is difficult for sin and resentment to flourish in a community rich in Christ-like love.

What I think this interpretation is saying is that the more we love one another, the less sins we will commit, not that an act being done out of love excuses it from being a sin. This would mean that "covering" in this sense means preventing or protecting from the sinful acts. I get that idea from the last two sentences. Not that I know what I'm talking about here. I absolutely do not. The only time I did poorly in any sort of school, ever, was when I had to interpret something. I don't know how they get what they get and I always get something completely different than what everybody else gets. It always makes sense to me but the correct answer, it is not.

[tam]

Peace to you,

I was just going to mention the same thing as tcg, but he beat me to it. Another example would be a prostitute who sells her body so as to feed/care for her household (a child, parents, siblings, loved ones, etc). She is acting out of love for others, and love covers over a multitude of sins.

If we're gonna speak biblically, the bible says that love covers a multitude of sins.

Does it really? I'm not doubting you, it's just I did read it and don't happen to recall that bit. If it does say that, that seems problematic in other ways. More problematic, actually. Another 90's movie reference just for bad taste: Does this mean Andy Dufrane is innocent, for real innocent, even if he had really shot his wife and her lover in cold blood?

(edited because I must have misunderstood tcg - peace to you)

Love does not commit murder. How would Andy have been showing love to his wife by murdering her? How would he have been acting out of love for his wife by murdering her?

(Adultery is grounds for divorce, mind you. But not for murder.)

I would guess that when love isn't pure, when it's mixed in with hate, it would no longer cover the sin.

Yeah, you can't use love as an excuse to harm - specifically murder - someone else. Oh, I did it because I love them. No, that doesn't fly. The example above (Andy Dufrene - it took me a minute to remember who that was) would not be an example of loving another person. It might be jealous rage, it might be pain and anger and betrayal lashing out, it might be a moment of insanity. But it would not have been acting from love.

But still, if we didn't love our mates, that kind of crime would never occur. People wouldn't care that their spouse slept with somebody else, certainly not enough to risk prison time.

You can care that your spouse slept with someone else without murdering them (or their lover, and what if the lover never even knew about you). If my spouse (and I do love him) was unfaithful, I would divorce him, or I would forgive him (that might take some time, with pain and anger in between), and I suppose that would depend upon the circumstances. But I would never ever murder him (or his lover). There is no love in that - not for him, not for my children, not for anyone else who loves him, not even for myself - and certainly not for Christ and His Father whose commands are: Love God with your whole heart, mind, soul; love your neighbor as yourself; love your enemies; love one another as Christ has loved us; forgive those who wrong you.


Peace again to you.