Life only comes from life

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 93 here.

No scientific experiment has EVER proved that life can arise from nonliving material.

Fact: All life is composed of atoms.

For debate:

Are atoms alive prior to their clumping together in the creation of life?

[bluegreenearth]

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #1]

I'm not confident the following response is completely reasonable or logical, but the concept we label as "life" seems to be a somewhat arbitrary distinction between one set of arranged atoms and chemical reactions and other sets of arranged atoms and chemical reactions. In other words, I am considering the possibility that "life" doesn't exist as anything more than an abstract concept in a universe comprised entirely of atoms and chemical reactions in various arrangements. So, in this sense, atoms are not "alive" but neither are the arrangements of atoms and chemical reactions we arbitrarily distinguish from the other atoms and chemical reactions. Of course, I reserve the right to be smarter later.

[Miles]

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Might be helpful to have a definition of "life" at hand.

Life Definition

noun, plural: lives
(1) A distinctive characteristic of a living organism from dead organism or non-living thing, as specifically distinguished by the capacity to grow, metabolize, respond (to stimuli), adapt, and reproduce.


Basic Characteristics of a Living Thing

Organization. Living things are have an organized structure to perform a specific function. In particular, a living thing is made up of a single or a group of cell(s). A cell is the basic structural and functional unit of any organism.

Homeostasis. A life form would have an ability to keep up its existence, for instance, by regulating its internal environment to keep up a constant or favourable state.

Metabolism. A living thing would be capable of converting energy from chemicals into cellular components through anabolic reactions. It would also be capable of decomposing organic matter through catabolism.

Growth. A living thing grows, i.e. in size or in number.

Response. An organism has an ability to respond to stimuli or to its environment, usually through a series of metabolic reactions.

Reproduction. One of the hallmarks of life is the ability to reproduce, i.e. producing a new of its kind.

Adaptation. An organism is capable of changing through time to adapt to its environment.
source: biologyonline

So in answer to the question, "Are atoms alive prior to their clumping together in the creation of life?" The answer is, No, they are not!

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[DrNoGods]

[Replying to Miles in post #3]

So in answer to the question, "Are atoms alive prior to their clumping together in the creation of life?" The answer is, No, they are not!

Wholeheartedly agree, given any remotely similar definition of life. So many anti-evolutionists seem to want to go straight from a nonliving collection of molecules to humans that can talk, without any consideration of the gigantic gap (in both time and evolutionary development) between the first population of organisms that fit a basic description of "life" and something as complex as a mammal (or even a sponge). Much easier to just ignore scientific progress and the complicated process of digging out all the pesky details, and stick to ancient stories where the narrative is cleanly laid out in advance and it is only necessary to believe it on pure faith.

[bluegreenearth]

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Might be helpful to have a definition of "life" at hand.

Life Definition

noun, plural: lives
(1) A distinctive characteristic of a living organism from dead organism or non-living thing, as specifically distinguished by the capacity to grow, metabolize, respond (to stimuli), adapt, and reproduce.


Basic Characteristics of a Living Thing

Organization. Living things are have an organized structure to perform a specific function. In particular, a living thing is made up of a single or a group of cell(s). A cell is the basic structural and functional unit of any organism.

Homeostasis. A life form would have an ability to keep up its existence, for instance, by regulating its internal environment to keep up a constant or favourable state.

Metabolism. A living thing would be capable of converting energy from chemicals into cellular components through anabolic reactions. It would also be capable of decomposing organic matter through catabolism.

Growth. A living thing grows, i.e. in size or in number.

Response. An organism has an ability to respond to stimuli or to its environment, usually through a series of metabolic reactions.

Reproduction. One of the hallmarks of life is the ability to reproduce, i.e. producing a new of its kind.

Adaptation. An organism is capable of changing through time to adapt to its environment.
source: biologyonline

So in answer to the question, "Are atoms alive prior to their clumping together in the creation of life?" The answer is, No, they are not!

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At the most fundamental level of those basic characteristics, could some stars in the universe be perceived as alive?

Could some stars be perceived organized structures that perform the specific functions of emitting light and heat?

Could some stars be perceived as keeping up their existence by fusing lighter elements into heavier elements within their internal environment to keep up a constant or favorable state?

Could some stars be perceived as converting energy from chemicals through various internal physical reactions that produce waste products in the form of heavier elements?

Could some stars be perceived as having grown from smaller materials within a nebula?

Could some stars be perceived as having an ability to respond to stimuli such as gravity from other massive objects in their environment through a series of physical reactions such as a change in their rotation or orbit?

Could some stars be perceived as having an ability to reproduce through the supernova process where gravity acts on the resulting nebula to produce a new star and possibly a few orbiting planets?

Could some stars be perceived as capable of adapting through time by expanding themselves to the red giant phase or shrinking themselves down to the black hole phase in order to accommodate a change in the physical reactions occurring in their internal environment?

I don't ask these questions to imply that I believe stars are alive but to consider the possibility that "life" doesn't exist at all except as an arbitrary concept. As always, I reserve the right to discover I'm completely misunderstanding this issue and subsequently change my mind.

[nobspeople]

From Post 93 here.

No scientific experiment has EVER proved that life can arise from nonliving material.

Fact: All life is composed of atoms.

For debate:

Are atoms alive prior to their clumping together in the creation of life?

Not from what I've seen (though the caveat needs to be what is 'life').
But this isn't to say, life can't come from non-living 'things' (be them atoms or what-have-you) when you combine them from other non-living things, even using the definition of life used currently, I suspect.
Though, this question is probably best asked outside this forum and all of its assumed 'experts' on, well, everything.

[Miles]

At the most fundamental level of those basic characteristics, could some stars in the universe be perceived as alive?

I suppose, in the loosest sense of "alive." Like " The hills are alive with the sound of music. "

Could some stars be perceived organized structures that perform the specific functions of emitting light and heat?

Could some stars be perceived as keeping up their existence by fusing lighter elements into heavier elements within their internal environment to keep up a constant or favorable state?

Could some stars be perceived as converting energy from chemicals through various internal physical reactions that produce waste products in the form of heavier elements?

Could some stars be perceived as having grown from smaller materials within a nebula?

Could some stars be perceived as having an ability to respond to stimuli such as gravity from other massive objects in their environment through a series of physical reactions such as a change in their rotation or orbit?

Could some stars be perceived as having an ability to reproduce through the supernova process where gravity acts on the resulting nebula to produce a new star and possibly a few orbiting planets?

Could some stars be perceived as capable of adapting through time by expanding themselves to the red giant phase or shrinking themselves down to the black hole phase in order to accommodate a change in the physical reactions occurring in their internal environment?

This is beginning to sound too much like a high school astronomy quiz to bother with.


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