Body as the temple of the HS

[nobspeople]

“Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God(1)? You are not your own(2), for you were bought with a price(3). So glorify God in your body.”

A few questions to discuss:

1) Who gave God the permission to use my body for his spirit?
Why did I not have a choice in that decision (I've seen no passage speaking of this decision on my part)?
How far do we take the 'your body is a temple' thing? No body modifications? No hair coloring or smoking or caffeine or alcohol? No fatty foods? No revealing clothing?

2) I find the 'you are not your own' equally disconcerting, as worded (queue the 'original text' moguls, of course). If I'm 'not my own' then why do I have free will over and (more) control (than anyone else) of my body?

3) A price I don't recall asking for. Further, many believers would say 'it's a gift, freely given', why, now, am I expected to see it as a price? A gift indicates something given for your benefit, which you're free to accept or not, no harm if not. A price indicates its value, of which you're response. Is it a gift or a price?

[JehovahsWitness]

Practice slavery

Leviticus 25:44-46
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

The practice of slavery is not necessarily wrong. Mistreatment abuse of any person, slave or freeman, is contrary to bible law and principle but the two do not have to be synonymous. This certainly was the case under the Mosaic law.




OBJECTION #1: BUT WHY DID THE LAW AUTHORISE THE OWNING OF FOREIGN SLAVES IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Because it was an acceptable part of the culture at the time and ostensively added to the wealth and productivity of the nation. The slave bought as such from a foreign nation was already in servitude but would arguably enjoy greater protections and rights with the nation of Israel than with any of the neighbour nations at the time. The slaves obtained through the conquest of the promised land were spared their lives which was an act of mercy and female slaves obtained through war had the prospect of obtaining their freedom through marriage rights. NOTE: Under the Hebrew system nobody was kept in chains, confined or could be denied basic rights over their person; the foreign slaves married, had children and came under the protection of the patriarch.

OBJECTION #2 : WHY WAS A FOREIGN SLAVE NOT BE REPURCHASED OR FREED AFTER 7 YEARS LIKE A HEBREW?

If he or she was bought as a slave or was captured through war he had nobody to repurchass him. Sending him away would not have been a kindness as he would have been without resource or income. In Israel all land was to be kept as a family inheritance, it could not even be sold to another Israelite if he was from a different tribe. This protected even the poorest Hebrew from absolute destitution and protected the integrity of the nation as a whole from takeover by economic invasion. It also however meant that if you were not part of a native household you had no sure source of income. Any slave could request his freedom or take his chances by running away to another nation (it would have been illegal to bring him back beat or maim him as punishment and keep him by force in "chattle slavery") but the reality was that would have been like quitting your job without any prosepcts of another.

CONCLUSION : Slavery to another human is never the ideal but under the Hebrew system it was a protection against poverty for the native and afforded the foreigner a dignified existence with positive prospects.

FURTHER READING Does the Bible Condone Slavery?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102011251

Personal BLOG
https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... world.html

RELATED POSTS

What did being a man's "property" mean to the ancient Hebrews?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 01#p814401

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SLAVERY, CHILD ABUSE and ...THE MOSAIC LAW

[Tcg]

CONCLUSION : Slavery to another human is never the ideal but under the Hebrew system it was a protection against poverty for the native and afforded the foreigner a dignified existence with positive prospects.

Odd that the bible doesn't mention any of that. The so-called "positive prospects" were life long slavery which included being passed down as property. The bible does include that. It's almost as if this a story added to the bible to justify the favoritism/racism the Israelites practiced in the name of their tribal war god.


Tcg

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

...
Who gave God the permission to use my body for his spirit?

Theists.

Why did I not have a choice in that decision (I've seen no passage speaking of this decision on my part)?

Cause you didn't show up when the bible got writ.

How far do we take the 'your body is a temple' thing?
...

Far enough to get the pretty thing stripped down so I can worship me at her temple.

I find the 'you are not your own' equally disconcerting, as worded (queue the 'original text' moguls, of course). If I'm 'not my own' then why do I have free will over and (more) control (than anyone else) of my body?

Cause religious belief doesn't need to make sense, it just needs to placate the masses.

A price I don't recall asking for. Further, many believers would say 'it's a gift, freely given', why, now, am I expected to see it as a price? A gift indicates something given for your benefit, which you're free to accept or not, no harm if not. A price indicates its value, of which you're response. Is it a gift or a price?

"Here, I bought you a car, but you gotta buy the gas".

When ya might notta even wanted a car.

[Miles]

Practice slavery

Leviticus 25:44-46
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

The practice of slavery is not necessarily wrong.

Lacking intellectual insight, statements such as this don't deserve a considered reply.

Have a good day.


.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #4]

What makes you think the writer was speaking to YOU?

To whom do you think the writer's speaking to here?

[1213]

...
1) Who gave God the permission to use my body for his spirit?
...

What makes you to think God’s spirit is in you?

Bible doesn’t tell God’s spirit is in everyone.

[nobspeople]

...
1) Who gave God the permission to use my body for his spirit?
...

What makes you to think God’s spirit is in you?

Bible doesn’t tell God’s spirit is in everyone.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

2 Corinthians 6:16
For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
“I will dwell in them and walk among them;

Ezekiel 36:27
I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes

ETC.

[1213]

...
1) Who gave God the permission to use my body for his spirit?
...

What makes you to think God’s spirit is in you?

Bible doesn’t tell God’s spirit is in everyone.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

2 Corinthians 6:16
For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
“I will dwell in them and walk among them;

Ezekiel 36:27
I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes

ETC.

Sorry, I think that is not about all people.

[tam]

Peace to you,

“Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God(1)? You are not your own(2), for you were bought with a price(3). So glorify God in your body.”

A few questions to discuss:

Sure, but just real quick - I am not sure what issues that Paul might have been dealing with (and very early on in his ministry, he still carried some baggage from his time as a pharisee zealous for the old covenant law). But it is not this flesh and blood that we currently have that counts for something (as Christ said - the flesh counts for nothing; John 6:63), but rather it is the Body of Christ, the true Temple (of God), in whom God dwells - which includes all who are part of the Body of Christ (1Corinth 12:27).

Do you not know that you yourselves are God's temple, and the spirit of God dwells in you? (1Corinth 3:16)

1) Who gave God the permission to use my body for his spirit?
Why did I not have a choice in that decision (I've seen no passage speaking of this decision on my part)?

As others have mentioned, Paul is speaking to those who wish to be in Christ. He is not addressing anyone who does not want this. Neither God nor His Son force themselves upon (or within) anyone. Who would want to dwell in a hostile house (or temple) that did not want them?

Christ even said,

"If anyone loves me, they will keep my word. My father will love them and we will come to them and make our home with them."

That home/dwelling would be 'within' them (who love Him and so are loved by the Father).

How far do we take the 'your body is a temple' thing? No body modifications? No hair coloring or smoking or caffeine or alcohol? No fatty foods? No revealing clothing?

No, none of that matters, because it is not the flesh that counts. Nor is a person made unclean by anything that goes into the body (be that food, alcohol, music, movies, etc), but rather from what comes out of the mouth (for out of the heart's abundance, the mouth speaks). From Matt 15:

“Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”

“Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

2) I find the 'you are not your own' equally disconcerting, as worded (queue the 'original text' moguls, of course). If I'm 'not my own' then why do I have free will over and (more) control (than anyone else) of my body?

Again, consider the audience that Paul is addressing. And 'you are not your own' means that you (those being addressed) do belong to another (to God, and to His Son, purchased by that Son). I am glad for this; this is what I want. If someone wishes to serve a different master (or no master), then so be it. No one is forced to serve God or His Son, but gratitude and love compel some to do just that (especially knowing that Christ gave His life for us, to redeem us from the one - Adam - who sold/subjected all his offspring, even the world, to Death. And that subjection to Death was done without our consent). And if one is following Christ and the example He set for us, then He made Himself a least one, He came and served, and He always put the will of His Father first.

- Just as a side note regarding control over this flesh and blood body - we may have some control, but none of us have control over whether or not we die, or even get sick (in many things). We might be able to prolong our lives for a time (eating right, being healthy and safe) or our genetics might not care about how well we take care of ourselves. But this flesh dies, regardless of our will.

(this changes when Christ returns, because we are given a new body, but until that time...)



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Paul of Tarsus]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

The answer to your questions can be summed up with one answer: We are God's pawns, his playthings that he manipulates for his own gratification, and nobody has any real right to his or her body which is owned by God to do with as he will. Or so we are told.

But let's take a look at the passage in question from 1 Corinthians 6:

18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

We are being told here that if we enjoy sex in any way that God dictates against, then we are supposedly immoral. If a gay couple are in love and have sex for instance, then this God calls them immoral whining that they've desecrated his "temple," and this judgment is coming from a being who demands they be stoned to death, his idea of morality.

Some might argue that this injunction is only for those who are "in Christ," but ultimately we have no choice in that matter either. God picks us for eternal life or destruction, and we must accept what he chooses to do with us "as the potter shapes the vessel."

So according to what Christ said in his story, God is our master, and we are his slaves. We are to obey out of fear lest Christ's (not so) heavenly Father destroys both our bodies and souls in hell.