Jesus paid the price? Paid who? What mercy?

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Avoice
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Jesus paid the price? Paid who? What mercy?

Post #1

Post by Avoice »

Christians hold Jesus to be God. At least most of them believe this.

They believe God died to pay the price for the sins of man.

I'd like to know just who is he paying this price to ? Himself?

Christians believe man can kill God. That's absurd.
It's just as rediculous as God dying so he can pay himself.

Christians see the God of the (falsely called) old testament angry and having little compassion. But claim Jesus to be loving and merciful. What mercy is there in the (falsely called) new testament?
Who is merciful?

Let's compare the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. A god who forgives our sins if we just acknowledge them and change our ways? A God who says one sins will not even be remembered.

Or the Christian God Jesus? ACCORDING to Christianity SOMEONE HAS TO PAY THE PRICE.
Imagine a courtroom and God sitting on the bench. A criminal is told he will be put in prison if he does not pay the million dollar fine. He has no money. He is led out if the courtroom to begin his sentence when someone stands up and tells the judge (god) that he'll pay the million dollars. God accepts the money and then let's the criminal go free.
Where's the mercy? A merciful judge doesn't demand someone pay the price.
How is Christianity's opinion of god merciful?
A merciful God shows mercy. How is a demand of payment merciful?

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Tcg
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Re: Jesus paid the price for you? What mercy?

Post #2

Post by Tcg »

Avoice wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am
A merciful God shows mercy. How is a demand of payment merciful?
I don't know. Why did God demand Israelites to sacrifice so many bulls and whatnot?


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Re: Jesus paid the price? Paid who? What mercy?

Post #3

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Avoice wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am Christians hold Jesus to be God. At least most of them believe this.

They believe God died to pay the price for the sins of man.

I'd like to know just who is he paying this price to ? Himself?
I find such to be a pernicious attempt to goad others into compliance. It's nothing more'n an attempt to guilt trip folks.
Christians believe man can kill God. That's absurd.
It's just as rediculous as God dying so he can pay himself.
When ya make up a religion, ya get to write the rules.
Christians see the God of the (falsely called) old testament angry and having little compassion. But claim Jesus to be loving and merciful. What mercy is there in the (falsely called) new testament?
Who is merciful?
Who's mercuful is those who don't try to coerce others into goofy beliefs.
Let's compare the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. A god who forgives our sins if we just acknowledge them and change our ways? A God who says one sins will not even be remembered.
I've yet to find me the first one to know the mind of a god they can't show exists.
Or the Christian God Jesus? ACCORDING to Christianity SOMEONE HAS TO PAY THE PRICE.
Imagine a courtroom and God sitting on the bench. A criminal is told he will be put in prison if he does not pay the million dollar fine. He has no money. He is led out if the courtroom to begin his sentence when someone stands up and tells the judge (god) that he'll pay the million dollars. God accepts the money and then let's the criminal go free.
Where's the mercy? A merciful judge doesn't demand someone pay the price.
How is Christianity's opinion of god merciful?
A merciful God shows mercy. How is a demand of payment merciful?
It's self evident a merciful god'd be him all merciful.

What ain't merciful is expecting me to believe tales that can't be shown to be true.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Jesus paid the price for you? What mercy?

Post #4

Post by Difflugia »

Tcg wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:48 amWhy did God demand Israelites to sacrifice so many bulls and whatnot?
Because Levites enjoyed bull stew with a nice side of grain offering.

I don't think that's why Jesus was sacrificed, though.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Jesus paid the price for you? What mercy?

Post #5

Post by Avoice »

[Replying to Tcg in post #2]


That response doesn't answer my questions

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Re: Jesus paid the price for you? What mercy?

Post #6

Post by benchwarmer »

Difflugia wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:18 am
Tcg wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:48 amWhy did God demand Israelites to sacrifice so many bulls and whatnot?
Because Levites enjoyed bull stew with a nice side of grain offering.

I don't think that's why Jesus was sacrificed, though.
Never has more truth been spoken. It's pretty clear when you think about it. The priests were hungry and what better way to get fed? In fact, weren't the offerings only good if made to the priests? Slaughtering some animals in the back 40 directly to God and having a BBQ didn't cut it, you had to give the best of your products to the priests.

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Re: Jesus paid the price? Paid who? What mercy?

Post #7

Post by 1213 »

Avoice wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am Christians hold Jesus to be God. At least most of them believe this.

They believe God died to pay the price for the sins of man.

I'd like to know just who is he paying this price to ? Himself? ...
I think it would be good first to notice that Jesus forgave sins even before his death, so death was not necessary for it.

The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, answered them, "Why are you reasoning so in your hearts? Which is easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you;' or to say, 'Arise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (he said to the paralyzed man), "I tell you, arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house." Immediately he rose up before them, and took up that which he was laying on, and departed to his house, glorifying God.
Luke 5:21-25

Secondly, the price of sin is death.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

In Bible sinful person deserves death.

Bible tells the reason why Jesus came was to declare the good news.

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luke 4:18-19

Because of that, people killed him, obviously, what else could be done to person who heals and wants to set people free. And that is why and how it can be said, he paid the price of our sins, he died because of our sins. People who would have deserved death, got the forgiveness and because Jesus declared it for people, he was killed and got the wage of sin, which is death. It does not mean his death was require as a payment for forgiveness. It means, he got the wage of sin (death), because of sinful people.

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Re: Jesus paid the price? Paid who? What mercy?

Post #8

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

Avoice wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am Christians hold Jesus to be God. At least most of them believe this.
:approve:
Avoice wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am They believe God died to pay the price for the sins of man.
:approve:
Avoice wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am I'd like to know just who is he paying this price to ? Himself?
No, he was sacrificed to the Father, who is the First person of the Holy Trinity.

You do realize that the Trinity consists of 3 persons, right?

Christians believe man can kill God. That's absurd.
Avoice wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am It's just as rediculous as God dying so he can pay himself.
When you start off with a false premise, that can/will only lead to a false conclusion.
Avoice wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am Christians see the God of the (falsely called) old testament angry and having little compassion. But claim Jesus to be loving and merciful.
The interpretation of what an individual sees, is subjective.
Avoice wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am What mercy is there in the (falsely called) new testament?
Who is merciful?
The sacrifice of Jesus.
Avoice wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am Let's compare the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. A god who forgives our sins if we just acknowledge them and change our ways? A God who says one sins will not even be remembered.

Or the Christian God Jesus? ACCORDING to Christianity SOMEONE HAS TO PAY THE PRICE.
Imagine a courtroom and God sitting on the bench. A criminal is told he will be put in prison if he does not pay the million dollar fine. He has no money. He is led out if the courtroom to begin his sentence when someone stands up and tells the judge (god) that he'll pay the million dollars. God accepts the money and then let's the criminal go free.
Where's the mercy? A merciful judge doesn't demand someone pay the price.
How is Christianity's opinion of god merciful?
A merciful God shows mercy. How is a demand of payment merciful?
No, because the party who is short the million dollars still needs to be made "whole".
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Re: Jesus paid the price? Paid who? What mercy?

Post #9

Post by brunumb »

We_Are_VENOM wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:33 pm No, he was sacrificed to the Father, who is the First person of the Holy Trinity.
He wasn't sacrificed. He was killed. Getting killed doesn't pay for anything. Sounds more like an in joke between God and Jesus.
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Re: Jesus paid the price? Paid who? What mercy?

Post #10

Post by We_Are_VENOM »

brunumb wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:42 pm
He wasn't sacrificed. He was killed. Getting killed doesn't pay for anything. Sounds more like an in joke between God and Jesus.
Then me and you apparently disagree on what it means to be sacrificed. Oh well.
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