Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Banned
Banned
Posts: 20879
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 4093 times
Been thanked: 2572 times

Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #1

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 29 here:
Wootah wrote: We can prove hell anytime you want to. You go ahead and make the thread.
For debate:

Please offer some means to confirm Hell exists.

Bonus points for offering means to confirm folks (or their spirits) go there .

I remind folks, the bible is not considered authoritative in this section of the site.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11353
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 313 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #101

Post by 1213 »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:27 pm ...
There's a rich literary tradition of folks creating imaginary places in order to support their stories.
Please give one example of such story that is intended to be taken as a true story and not fiction?
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:27 pm Mordor's been written about. Do you believe it exists?
Yes, but I call it Brussels. Nowadays I think Minas Tirith is probably Washington and it is ruled by “Stewards of Gondor”, And Peking appears to be the Isengard. (It is also possible that I have made an error and Brussels is actually the Isengard and Peking is the Mordor.)
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:27 pmOne can hunt deer without knowing what they are, buy shooting em every critter they can,...
Yeah, I have no doubt about that. My point was just to say that it is not very reasonable.

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8488
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #102

Post by Tcg »

1213 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:50 am
Tcg wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:05 pm So you are suggesting that the Matthew passage is in error when it promises eternal punishment?....
Of course not. The punishment is the eternal fire lake. It exists/burns eternally and I have understood, what is thrown into it, also burns forever. But, that does not mean person is living/feeling there forever.
Then it wouldn't be eternal punishment. It'd be temporary punishment. In any case we've already resolved this issue and determined that it isn't directly related to the discussion at hand. There is no need to address it further.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

User avatar
1213
Savant
Posts: 11353
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 313 times
Been thanked: 359 times

Re: Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #103

Post by 1213 »

Tcg wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:58 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:50 am
Tcg wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:05 pm So you are suggesting that the Matthew passage is in error when it promises eternal punishment?....
Of course not. The punishment is the eternal fire lake. It exists/burns eternally and I have understood, what is thrown into it, also burns forever. But, that does not mean person is living/feeling there forever.
Then it wouldn't be eternal punishment. ...
If the punishment is fire lake that burns/exists eternally (and there is no coming back), how can you say it is not eternal?

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8488
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #104

Post by Tcg »

1213 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:31 pm
Tcg wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:58 am
1213 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:50 am
Tcg wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:05 pm So you are suggesting that the Matthew passage is in error when it promises eternal punishment?....
Of course not. The punishment is the eternal fire lake. It exists/burns eternally and I have understood, what is thrown into it, also burns forever. But, that does not mean person is living/feeling there forever.
Then it wouldn't be eternal punishment. ...
If the punishment is fire lake that burns/exists eternally (and there is no coming back), how can you say it is not eternal?
As I've already stated, this discussion isn't relevant to the OP. If you have a desire to discuss it further, I'd recommend you start a new thread and make your case there.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Banned
Banned
Posts: 20879
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 4093 times
Been thanked: 2572 times

Re: Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #105

Post by JoeyKnothead »

1213 wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:51 am
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:27 pm ...
There's a rich literary tradition of folks creating imaginary places in order to support their stories.
Please give one example of such story that is intended to be taken as a true story and not fiction?
The bible comes to mind.

Can anyone here provide the GPS coordinates to the biblical Eden?
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:27 pm Mordor's been written about. Do you believe it exists?
Yes, but I call it Brussels. Nowadays I think Minas Tirith is probably Washington and it is ruled by “Stewards of Gondor”, And Peking appears to be the Isengard. (It is also possible that I have made an error and Brussels is actually the Isengard and Peking is the Mordor.)
Nevertheless, made up cities are a thing.
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:27 pmOne can hunt deer without knowing what they are, buy shooting em every critter they can,...
Yeah, I have no doubt about that. My point was just to say that it is not very reasonable.
"Reasonable" is a subjective term.

You said such as it was a "stupid" idea to even consider trying to hunt something that one couldn't identify, all I had to do to be "reasonable" was to show it could be done, thereby invoking your own "stupid" against your argument.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9161
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #106

Post by Wootah »

Tcg wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:58 am
Wootah wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:21 am
brunumb wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:43 am If we are just talking about Hell now, I would like to suggest the following. All unbelievers and other non-Christians die and cease to exist. Hell is reserved for bad Christians who fail to live up to the expectations of their God.
If you are unsure please refer back to my definition of hell. Are you OK with that?
Which one? You've provided at least two:
Wootah wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:05 pm Hell is separation from God.
Wootah wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:52 am Hell is the torment and anguish of knowing what you have lost.

Tcg
I've requoted myself a few times to get people to focus on that one. We can worry about hell is separation from God when we need to.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Banned
Banned
Posts: 20879
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 4093 times
Been thanked: 2572 times

Re: Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #107

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:52 am ...
I've requoted myself a few times to get people to focus on that one. We can worry about hell is separation from God when we need to.
Will there be any focus on showing the god in question actually exists? (As I assume such discussion is pertinent to the OP)

Remember, this section of the site doesn't consider the bible authoritative, except as to what it claims.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

User avatar
Wootah
Savant
Posts: 9161
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #108

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #108]

Topic is hell. Let's settle on that first. Do you understand my points so far?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

User avatar
JoeyKnothead
Banned
Banned
Posts: 20879
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Here
Has thanked: 4093 times
Been thanked: 2572 times

Re: Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #109

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:15 am [Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #108]
Topic is hell. Let's settle on that first. Do you understand my points so far?
Yes, I understand the topic of an OP I presented.

I also understand you've been carrying on about a god you've yet to show exists.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8488
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: Wootah can prove Hell (exists?)

Post #110

Post by Tcg »

Wootah wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:52 am
Tcg wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:58 am
Wootah wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:21 am
brunumb wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:43 am If we are just talking about Hell now, I would like to suggest the following. All unbelievers and other non-Christians die and cease to exist. Hell is reserved for bad Christians who fail to live up to the expectations of their God.
If you are unsure please refer back to my definition of hell. Are you OK with that?
Which one? You've provided at least two:
Wootah wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:05 pm Hell is separation from God.
Wootah wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:52 am Hell is the torment and anguish of knowing what you have lost.

Tcg
I've requoted myself a few times to get people to focus on that one. We can worry about hell is separation from God when we need to.
Given that "Hell is separation from God" was your first version of hell, why shouldn't it be open for discussion? Additionally, your reply doesn't address the fact that these are two totally different claims about hell. What is your purpose in making these two unrelated claims?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

Post Reply