Does God have free will?

[Leox]

First of all, God is all-knowing. That means he knows everything including his own choices regardless of time.
If God has free will. He can choose to go against his knowledge of his own future actions. But then he is not all-knowing because he can't predict his own actions.
For example, God knew Adam will eat the fruit. But he decided to make Adam anyway. Thus God wasn't really punishing Adam out of God's own liking. But it was rather part of the script.

I guess this is a more philosophical problem but I want to know how it is handled in the setting of religion.

[JehovahsWitness]

That equals no free will.

First one would have to define free will.

It's the dictionary definition that's not relevant.

The OP settled on the dictionary definition as the basis for this thread which is why I proceeded as I did. If you (or others) wish to debate something else, its not my thread so I have nothing to add , except ...knock yourself out.



JW





JW

[William]

That equals no free will.

First one would have to define free will.

Such discussions only flourish when no definition is supplied or acknowledged. Once one accepts the dictionary definition if free will all such posts become just so much irrelevance.

It's the dictionary definition that's not relevant.

The OP settled on the dictionary definition as the basis for this thread which is why I proceeded as I did. If younor others wish to debate something else, its not my thread so I have nothing to add , except ...knock yourself out.



JW





JW

The OP does not appear to provide a definition of 'free will'.

[Purple Knight]

The OP settled on the dictionary definition as the basis for this thread which is why I proceeded as I did. If you (or others) wish to debate something else, its not my thread so I have nothing to add , except ...knock yourself out.

If he did so then that's a pity. And it adds up to you being correct. I just don't think answering the question of whether or not God can do as he likes or whether he's enslaved by another being has much value.

Personally I don't see why the OP would do that because he mentions a script, which is much to the traditional, non-dictionary understanding of the Free Will Question than the not-being-enslaved definition of free will to which you are referring. If there's a script, then (usually) there's no free will, though the discussion often asks if there can be both. Perhaps he erred and ought to get another chance.

[Miles]

I define the position of 'God' as omni-omni, and a being in such position cannot be said to have a will which is free.

You probably do. But if we take a dictionary definition of GOD as per in the Christian faith

GOD:

The creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being

.

I see no reason to assume he does not have free will.

Just as I see no reason to assume your god has any moral authority, particularly in light of the many things he has done that are, in almost everyone's opinion, highly immoral.

[Purple Knight]

I see no reason to assume he does not have free will.

Can he choose to be evil, yes or no?

If he can pick up the margarine and eat it, if you really believe he can do that, you do have to honestly consider whether he might have actually done so.

Frankly I love your Coke and Pepsi hologram analogy and I agree with it, by the way. I might have to consider how I think about the Free Will Question some more.

But I still think the being that absolutely wouldn't pick up the Pepsi no matter what, never had any real choice to do anything other than try to get the Coke.

[brunumb]

People can choose to be good or evil.

That may not be completely true. Some of who/what we are is determined by our genes. Studies suggest that there may be a genetic susceptibility to committing violent crime. That could mean that we, or our brains, are no totally free to make decisions. From another perspective, is an addict truly free to decide to not take a drug? If the capacity is there, what use is it if other factors can so readily overcome it? People who are indoctrinated and inculcated with certain beliefs have their capacity to make choices compromised. What does this tell us about their free will? I think we are actually slaves to our brains and only have the illusion that we are making all the decisions.

[Miles]

That equals no free will.

First one would have to define free will.

Such discussions only flourish when no definition is supplied or acknowledged. Once one accepts the dictionary definition if free will all such posts become just so much irrelevance.

It's the dictionary definition that's not relevant.

The OP settled on the dictionary definition as the basis for this thread which is why I proceeded as I did. If younor others wish to debate something else, its not my thread so I have nothing to add , except ...knock yourself out.
JW

The OP does not appear to provide a definition of 'free will'.

Don't know where JW gets the idea that it does, but you're quite right; the OP does not provide a definition of "free will."

"Does God have free will?

Post #1

Post by Leox »Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:12 pm
First of all, God is all-knowing. That means he knows everything including his own choices regardless of time.
If God has free will. He can choose to go against his knowledge of his own future actions. But then he is not all-knowing because he can't predict his own actions.
For example, God knew Adam will eat the fruit. But he decided to make Adam anyway. Thus God wasn't really punishing Adam out of God's own liking. But it was rather part of the script.

I guess this is a more philosophical problem but I want to know how it is handled in the setting of religion."

.

[JehovahsWitness]

The OP does not appear to provide a definition of 'free will'.

My mistake it was in fact you MILES [and later William] that were kind enough to provide the dictionary definition of free will upon which I have based my posts.

Free will is the capacity for agents to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.

It's often stated in the past tense as "the ability to have done differently"

Wikipedia
Free Will:

Free will is the capacity for agents to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded.[1][2]

As I originally said, most posters launch into a detailed analysis of free will without defining their terms which is, in my opinion, a very basic requirement of debate.

[JehovahsWitness]

But I still think the being that absolutely wouldn't pick up the Pepsi no matter what, never had any real choice to do anything other than try to get the Coke.

The point is you say the being that wouldn't pick the Pepsi (rather than coke). This then would indicate a mental process which is evidence of free will as per the dictionary definition provided by MILES and WILLIIAM. If you mean couldn't pick anything because he lacked the capacity to make any choice whatsoever, that's another thing but if you mean "consistently picks" as in choose, then the question of free will is settled.



As long as a being has the capacity to pick one thing over another without coersion, the consistency of choice (or the factors in play that result in such consistency) is irrelevant. The only question as to the existence of free will is : "Did he pick ?"

[Purple Knight]

People can choose to be good or evil.

That may not be completely true. Some of who/what we are is determined by our genes. Studies suggest that there may be a genetic susceptibility to committing violent crime. That could mean that we, or our brains, are not totally free to make decisions. From another perspective, is an addict truly free to decide to not take a drug?

Of course not, and I don't believe in free will in reality. Drugs are a great example of why: The addict will continue to go to his drug even though he most certainly isn't served by doing that and almost certainly understands that and doesn't really want to. He may have what I call "free will in a jar" but that's a whole other horse apple.

I just said that in the Biblical context people have free will because they can choose (according to Biblical canon) to be good or evil. Free will exists in Biblical canon so that's how I'm addressing it because we're talking about a Biblical character.

I don't think God has free will (again, in the Biblical context) because I don't think he can choose to be evil. I can choose to be evil (again, in the Biblical context) because I'm a horrible, flawed, disgusting person. God isn't flawed. There's no temptation to give in to. There are no principles to violate out of selfishness because there is no selfishness.

For lack of a better way to explain things, God is "stuck" with his own perfection.

But I still think the being that absolutely wouldn't pick up the Pepsi no matter what, never had any real choice to do anything other than try to get the Coke.

That is debatable, but the point is you say the being that wouldn't pick the Pepsi (rather than coke). This then would indicate a mental process which is evidence of free will as per the dictionary definition provided by MILES and WILLIIAM.

Correct, and by the dictionary definition you're absolutely right, but they're shooting me in the foot here and you're letting them.

I still want to know if you believe God has the capacity for evil. There; that's a better way to phrase the question if I'm going to have to ask it while bleeding to death out of a gangrenous foot wound someone else generously opened for me.