false equivalency or not?

[tokutter]

This is used a lot: "Your almost an atheist......you don't believe in all the other gods"
Recently seen an apologist counter this with..........."That's like saying Barack Obama (who is married or course) is a bachelor to all other woman"
Is this a false equivalency?

[JoeyKnothead]

This is used a lot: "Your almost an atheist......you don't believe in all the other gods"
Recently seen an apologist counter this with..........."That's like saying Barack Obama (who is married or course) is a bachelor to all other woman"
Is this a false equivalency?

I don't know about false equivalence, bit it sure is goofy, as we note many religions frown on the having more'n the old lady, to the point of enacting legislation based on the opinion of a god they can't show exists to have him one.

[Difflugia]

Is this a false equivalency?

Yes.

As long as Barack Obama believes that all (or even some of) the other women exist, the equivalence is to monolatry rather than monotheism. Though there are people that do believe that all the other gods are real (and are demons or something), most Christians don't believe that Zeus, Odin, and Ishtar are real beings. The one-liner is aimed at Christians that would dismiss the existence of Horus as a matter of course, but seem incredulous that an atheist would dismiss the existence of Yahweh.

If the Christian making the argument about Obama's faithfulness to his wife actually believes in all of the other gods, then the equivalence is apt and draws attention to an assumption by the atheist that isn't necessarily true (i.e. that Christians don't believe in the existence of the other gods, even as false ones). Otherwise, it's a false (and disingenuous) equivalence.

[bjs1]

[Replying to Difflugia in post #3]

Very well. Then let’s refine the analogy:

“You are almost a solipsist. You don’t believe in any other physical reality.”

(A solipsist believes that only the self exists and that any physical universe is an illusion.)

[bjs1]

[Replying to tokutter in post #1]

This accurately points out how ridiculous it is to say that a Christians is “almost an atheist.”

Would you say that if a person believes that there is one moon orbiting the earth then that person “almost” believes that earth does not have a moon (perhaps because the appearance of the moon is a vast government conspiracy!)

The numbers are close. Saying that this makes the concepts similar is silly.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
A solipsist believes that only the self exists and that any physical universe is an illusion.

That'n right there's someone who never stubbed em their toe on the coffee table while stumbling around in the dark.

[bjs1]

...
A solipsist believes that only the self exists and that any physical universe is an illusion.

That'n right there's someone who never stubbed em their toe on the coffee table while stumbling around in the dark.

I do not claim that solipsism makes much sense. I don’t think it does. But then in this thread we are discussing the idea that Christian is “almost” an atheist, which on the face of it is absurd. It is saying that a person is “almost” something, except for the fact that they are not that thing in any meaningful way.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
A solipsist believes that only the self exists and that any physical universe is an illusion.

That'n right there's someone who never stubbed em their toe on the coffee table while stumbling around in the dark.

I do not claim that solipsism makes much sense. I don’t think it does. But then in this thread we are discussing the idea that Christian is “almost” an atheist, which on the face of it is absurd. It is saying that a person is “almost” something, except for the fact that they are not that thing in any meaningful way.

I hear ya.

I'm almost a man, to hear the pretty thing tell it

[Difflugia]

Very well. Then let’s refine the analogy:

That's an interesting use of the word "refine."

“You are almost a solipsist. You don’t believe in any other physical reality.”

This accurately points out how ridiculous it is to say that a Christians is “almost an atheist.”

Would you say that if a person believes that there is one moon orbiting the earth then that person “almost” believes that earth does not have a moon (perhaps because the appearance of the moon is a vast government conspiracy!)

The numbers are close. Saying that this makes the concepts similar is silly.

Neither of these matches the situation with the gods. The Christian/atheist quip works because there were not only people in the past, but whole populations right now that believe in the existence of other gods based on evidence of similar quality. Christians think nothing of dismissing the existence of those gods, but act shocked (Shocked!) that atheists can't bring themselves to believe in the favorite god of the Christians.

I'm not even sure how one would apply your solipsism argument (or, to be honest, what you even mean by it), but your moon analogy would first require claims of other moons around the Earth with a similar level of supporting evidence, but that are denied by the moon-believers (Lunists?).

An apt analogy would be someone that claims that France, Germany, and Portugal aren't real, but that the United Kingdom is, despite never having been to any of them. Another would be someone claiming that it's silly to believe in fairies, gnomes, and boggarts, but gets testy when someone questions their steadfast belief that leprechauns are real.

The argument isn't specifically based on the number of gods a Christian believes in, it just sounds funny because there's only one. The reason the argument works is because there are people that consider the existence of most gods beyond day-to-day contemplation, yet disparagingly use phrases like "dismiss out of hand" when critiquing the atheist position. While the consistent positions are to believe in all of them or none of them, immunity to the "atheist" jab doesn't even require one of those, but merely requires the Christian to acknowledge that an atheist's lack of belief in the Christian god is cognitively the same as a Christian's lack of belief in Kali or Hanuman.

[Difflugia]

But then in this thread we are discussing the idea that Christian is “almost” an atheist, which on the face of it is absurd. It is saying that a person is “almost” something, except for the fact that they are not that thing in any meaningful way.

It depends on what "almost" means here. As it's used in the atheist quote, it means that Christians in general are "atheist" in regard to other gods (Christians are atheist about "almost" as many gods as I am). The emotional attachment that most Christians have to the possibility of Asherah or Quetzalcoatl having an effect on their lives is the same level as I feel about Yahweh's impact on mine.

"How can an atheist simply dismiss God?"
"The same way a Christian simply dismisses Shamash."

If you don't dismiss the impact that Shamash has on our lives, then the analogy doesn't apply to you. If the evidence for Yahweh's existence is qualitatively different than that for other gods, then the analogy doesn't apply to any Christians. You might argue that the evidence is better, but to put it back into the perspective of your "Moon" analogy, I can take a picture of the Moon on demand (or at least within a few hours). Until that's true of Yahweh, the comparison of Yahweh with the Moon is at least hyperbole.