Is annihilation false doctrine?

[Wootah]

This is the philosophical perspective.

This all assumes a just legal system.

When someone is sentenced to go to prison they will only be able to end that prison sentence by paying the measured fine or serving the measured amount of time in prison. If that person has served their prison sentence and then you kill them you are acting unjustly.

If God is holy, righteous and just and we have sinned against God then hell is the prison we go to unless we pay for our sins against God or until we serve our time.

Problem a - is that we can never justly pay for our sins against an infinite God and so can never leave the prison.
Problem b - is that annihilation means that the sentence is over and God killed the person after the sentence was over.

Therefore Annihilation makes God unjust.

Put another way, at the point where God intends to annihilate a being it means that God regards that they have served their sentence. Therefore the being should be allowed into heaven. They have paid for their sins against God.

If they have not served their sentence and God annihilates them fails because as I just said, at the point of annihilation it means they have served their sentence.

Anecdote: I am pro-death penalty but the biggest argument against the death penalty for me is that prison lets the criminal rot for longer. Something about the execution is unjust, it is too light a punishment. I would still reply back that the cost to the state for keeping the criminal alive takes resources away from others and in a fallen world the prisoner could escape.

--

Just thinking about this.

After annihilation has the person paid for their sins?

If yes, then why aren't they in heaven?
If no, then they have escaped punishment or, worse, is God unable to justly punish?

--

Is annihilation false doctrine?

[brunumb]

The Bible notwithstanding, the real book of life says that we are evolved living organisms with a finite existence. We experience one death which does involve annihilation. Sinful or not, we will not be reconstituted later like a cup of instant soup, 'just add magic', to face any sort of judgment and possible second death.

[JoeyKnothead]

Who am I to say about Christian theology, but if the wages of sin is death, well there we go.

As to annihilation then, what say you about souls, who my limited understanding indicates, go on to Heaven (if at a later date)?

If by dying, I've paid the wages of my sins, which I think include that whole not accepting Jesus as savior - what of my soul?

A soul is a living being that breathes. So you are a human soul.

You are not separate from your "soul." They are one being.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezekiel 18:20)

For the wages of sin is death; . . . (Romans 6:23)

Ya know I'm but a student here, so please forgive...

What then of Heaven?

[myth-one.com]

Who am I to say about Christian theology, but if the wages of sin is death, well there we go.

As to annihilation then, what say you about souls, who my limited understanding indicates, go on to Heaven (if at a later date)?

If by dying, I've paid the wages of my sins, which I think include that whole not accepting Jesus as savior - what of my soul?

A soul is a living being that breathes. So you are a human soul.

You are not separate from your "soul." They are one being.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezekiel 18:20)

For the wages of sin is death; . . . (Romans 6:23)

Ya know I'm but a student here, so please forgive...

What then of Heaven?

What about Heaven?

Do you mean how can you get to Heaven?

[JoeyKnothead]

Who am I to say about Christian theology, but if the wages of sin is death, well there we go.

As to annihilation then, what say you about souls, who my limited understanding indicates, go on to Heaven (if at a later date)?

If by dying, I've paid the wages of my sins, which I think include that whole not accepting Jesus as savior - what of my soul?

A soul is a living being that breathes. So you are a human soul.

You are not separate from your "soul." They are one being.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezekiel 18:20)

For the wages of sin is death; . . . (Romans 6:23)

Ya know I'm but a student here, so please forgive...

What then of Heaven?

What about Heaven?

Do you mean how can you get to Heaven?

My understanding is that there's a Heaven (if only spiritually) that the good guys go to. So maybe not bodily, but their spirits / souls, which you've said will also die.

Who's up in Heaven?

[myth-one.com]

My understanding is that there's a Heaven (if only spiritually) that the good guys go to. So maybe not bodily, but their spirits / souls, which you've said will also die.

Who's up in Heaven?

It's believers and nonbelievers. Not good guys and bad guys. Believers can be as bad as anyone else.

In actuality, the Bible never states that Christians are going to heaven! It always states that believers will enter or become members of the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God.

The entire kingdom could be much larger than its center or base of activity which is heaven itself. That is, the ruler is God the Father who rules from heaven. His rule extends over the entire Kingdom of Heaven. This will eventually include the earth which is not now part of the Kingdom.

In fact, we are instructed in the Lord's prayer to pray for the Earth to once again become part of the Kingdom of Heaven:

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)

The earth will once again become part of the Kingdom of Heaven when Jesus returns to take back control of the earth from Satan. And how long does Jesus our Lord intend to reign on the earth?

The Lord shall reign for ever... (Psalm 146:10)

And what are the born again Christians going to be doing after Jesus' return?

We shall also reign with him. (II Timothy 2:12)

And how long are the born again Christians going to be with the Lord Jesus?

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

The Bible doesn't say we can't go to Heaven, but our home base will definitely be the good earth.
==================================================================

No matter what you hear, mankind is an animal which has no preeminence over the other animals. We will all die.

Man is different from the other animals in that he has freedom of choice, knows good from evil at some point, and has the opportunity to become immortal and live forever. In fact, the main choice man must make is between death and eternal life:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life... (Deuteronomy 30:19)

Forget the immortal soul and eternal punishment in the lake of fire bit. Those are myths designed to seal the scripture from mankind's understanding.

Every individual will make his or her choice of everlasting life or everlasting death after the choices are explained to them.

And many will never hear the true explanations of the two choices until after their resurrection.

So be patient.

[Wootah]

The Bible notwithstanding, the real book of life says that we are evolved living organisms with a finite existence. We experience one death which does involve annihilation. Sinful or not, we will not be reconstituted later like a cup of instant soup, 'just add magic', to face any sort of judgment and possible second death.

Spoken like a true fundamentalist. Prove any of it.

[brunumb]

The Bible notwithstanding, the real book of life says that we are evolved living organisms with a finite existence. We experience one death which does involve annihilation. Sinful or not, we will not be reconstituted later like a cup of instant soup, 'just add magic', to face any sort of judgment and possible second death.

Spoken like a true fundamentalist.

Thank you. I am learning from the best.

Prove any of it.

Is that a request coming from a believer to a non-believer?
Sorry, but I can't help laughing.

[Wootah]

The Bible notwithstanding, the real book of life says that we are evolved living organisms with a finite existence. We experience one death which does involve annihilation. Sinful or not, we will not be reconstituted later like a cup of instant soup, 'just add magic', to face any sort of judgment and possible second death.

Spoken like a true fundamentalist.

Thank you. I am learning from the best.

Prove any of it.

Is that a request coming from a believer to a non-believer?
Sorry, but I can't help laughing.

But seriously. Which one of your claims is testable?

You know, a lot of atheist talk is like a lifelong prisoner no longer believing there is anything outside the prison cell. Religion or not I just don't think it is justifiable. I do think it is a worldview and when I point it out atheists tend to get very offended (as if I attacked a sacred belief).

[JoeyKnothead]

My understanding is that there's a Heaven (if only spiritually) that the good guys go to. So maybe not bodily, but their spirits / souls, which you've said will also die.

Who's up in Heaven?

It's believers and nonbelievers. Not good guys and bad guys. Believers can be as bad as anyone else.

In actuality, the Bible never states that Christians are going to heaven! It always states that believers will enter or become members of the Kingdom of Heaven or Kingdom of God.

The entire kingdom could be much larger than its center or base of activity which is heaven itself. That is, the ruler is God the Father who rules from heaven. His rule extends over the entire Kingdom of Heaven. This will eventually include the earth which is not now part of the Kingdom.

In fact, we are instructed in the Lord's prayer to pray for the Earth to once again become part of the Kingdom of Heaven:

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)

The earth will once again become part of the Kingdom of Heaven when Jesus returns to take back control of the earth from Satan. And how long does Jesus our Lord intend to reign on the earth?

The Lord shall reign for ever... (Psalm 146:10)

And what are the born again Christians going to be doing after Jesus' return?

We shall also reign with him. (II Timothy 2:12)

And how long are the born again Christians going to be with the Lord Jesus?

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

The Bible doesn't say we can't go to Heaven, but our home base will definitely be the good earth.
==================================================================

No matter what you hear, mankind is an animal which has no preeminence over the other animals. We will all die.

Man is different from the other animals in that he has freedom of choice, knows good from evil at some point, and has the opportunity to become immortal and live forever. In fact, the main choice man must make is between death and eternal life:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life... (Deuteronomy 30:19)

Forget the immortal soul and eternal punishment in the lake of fire bit. Those are myths designed to seal the scripture from mankind's understanding.

Every individual will make his or her choice of everlasting life or everlasting death after the choices are explained to them.

And many will never hear the true explanations of the two choices until after their resurrection.

So be patient.

I remember some of that from some of your earlier tellings. I gotta say, this whole thing reads like the wishes of man, but that'll have to be an argument for another day.

Thanks for the schooling, and here's hoping ya never meet a biscuit you couldn't whoop.

[Tcg]

You know, a lot of atheist talk is like a lifelong prisoner no longer believing there is anything outside the prison cell.

It's always fascinating to read theists who presume to speak for atheists. Not sure if this boils down to Ad Hominem, a Straw Man, Poisoning the Well or some other logical fallacy. In any case the source is not from atheists.


Tcg