Is annihilation false doctrine?

[Wootah]

This is the philosophical perspective.

This all assumes a just legal system.

When someone is sentenced to go to prison they will only be able to end that prison sentence by paying the measured fine or serving the measured amount of time in prison. If that person has served their prison sentence and then you kill them you are acting unjustly.

If God is holy, righteous and just and we have sinned against God then hell is the prison we go to unless we pay for our sins against God or until we serve our time.

Problem a - is that we can never justly pay for our sins against an infinite God and so can never leave the prison.
Problem b - is that annihilation means that the sentence is over and God killed the person after the sentence was over.

Therefore Annihilation makes God unjust.

Put another way, at the point where God intends to annihilate a being it means that God regards that they have served their sentence. Therefore the being should be allowed into heaven. They have paid for their sins against God.

If they have not served their sentence and God annihilates them fails because as I just said, at the point of annihilation it means they have served their sentence.

Anecdote: I am pro-death penalty but the biggest argument against the death penalty for me is that prison lets the criminal rot for longer. Something about the execution is unjust, it is too light a punishment. I would still reply back that the cost to the state for keeping the criminal alive takes resources away from others and in a fallen world the prisoner could escape.

--

Just thinking about this.

After annihilation has the person paid for their sins?

If yes, then why aren't they in heaven?
If no, then they have escaped punishment or, worse, is God unable to justly punish?

--

Is annihilation false doctrine?

[Wootah]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #111]

Image + links != debate.

Are you a literalist on that number of 144,000 or do you think it represents the completeness of the saved people? Are you a literalist on other numbers in the bible?

[JehovahsWitness]

So why the whole Jesus dying on the cross for our sins?

The answer to your question is I believe Jesus died so that mankind can escape perishing and gain eternal life






JW

To learn more please go to other posts related

THE PLANET EARTH, .GOD'S KINGDOM and ... THE RANSOM SACRIFICE

[JehovahsWitness]

Are you a literalist on that number of 144,000 or do you think it represents the completeness of the saved people? Are you a literalist on other numbers in the bible?

We believe THAT number is literal. That is not the case for all numbers in the bible. Some numbers we take as literal and others (depending on the context) we do not. Numbers we take on a case by case level; meaning we do not have a "one position fits all" when it comes to whether a number is literal or not.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS




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Why do Jehovah's Witnesses take the number 144,000 to be literal but not other features of this group mentioned in Rev 14:1?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 66#p825066

Do Jehovah's Witnesses take ALL NUMBERS in the by literally? [this post]
viewtopic.php?p=1047775#p1047775

Are Jehovah's Witnesses "biblical literalists "?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 28#p868428[/quote]

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , THE 144, 000 and ... BIBLICAL LITERALISM

[Wootah]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #114]

And is that the sum total of everyone who will be saved or is that a special caste?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #114]

And is that the sum total of everyone who will be saved or is that a special caste?

The bible does not support any kind of "caste system" so no these ones are not "a special caste".




JW




RELATED POSTS

Does the bible support the idea of two different groups of Christians?
viewtopic.php?p=1022933#p1022933

How can millions be "saved" if only 144,000 individuals go to heaven?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 97#p846597

[tam]

Peace to you,

Tam, what is your view on what annihilation by God means please?

We use the word annihilation, but this is referring to complete destruction of the person ("body and soul"), the person is no more.

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #97]

CONCLUSION: Biblically, once a person dies, God considers he has been duly punished "for his sin". No further punishment can or will be extracted.

If a person has paid for their sins then they are sinless. I would expect to see them in heaven.

So are JW universalists?

I just wanted to comment because some things that people are saying don't make sense to me (I could be misunderstanding all of you, but I don't think so): because we do not pay for our sins with our death. Death is a consequence of sin. Death is the WAGE of sin. When we die, we are being paid the wages of sin. That is how wages work, yes?

That doesn't equal an automatic clean slate. If people got a clean slate just by dying, then why did Christ die to redeem anyone, to cover our sins, to gain forgiveness for anyone? No one has paid for their sins with their death so that they somehow have a clean slate at their death.

Men live, die, and are resurrected... either to life or to judgment and the second death, all based upon their deeds in this life. If death gave someone a clean slate, then no one could/would be judged according to what they had done in this life. In fact, this life wouldn't matter much at all when it comes to judgment. But as the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus shows, our words and deeds in this life do matter. And in the parable of the sheep and the goats, Christ is referring to things that people did in THIS life. See also Matt 12:36, 37.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #114]

And is that the sum total of everyone who will be saved or is that a special caste?

The bible does not support any kind of "caste system" so no these ones are not "a special caste".

Isn't it obvious that this was a typo and "caste" should have been "case"? I get the joke, but everyone makes typos that are often all too obvious. For example, in post 6 of this thread you wrote:

Biblically, going to heaven is not a right obtained by living a sinnless life (or paying for one's sins) its a gift /a pivilege.

Does this mean that only people who speak languages where "pivilege" is a valid word can go to heaven? And what does "sinnless" mean ... is this the same as sinless?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #114]

And is that the sum total of everyone who will be saved or is that a special caste?

Do you mean "special caste" as in an inherently superior group or is that a typo for case as in "an exception to a well established rule. 'Please clarify as I took it to mean the former not the latter.

Thanks,



JW

[JoeyKnothead]

A picture of claims being presented is not reliable evidence of that claim being true.

I remind folks that in this section of the site the bible ain't considered authoritative .

This is, I contend, just one more example of the Christian being incapable of showing their religious claims are truth, and how goofy is it to think a picture making those claims somehow supports the claims the picture of was took.

[JehovahsWitness]

A picture of claims being presented is not reliable evidence of that claim being true.

Did I say otherwise? Indeed where did I say the biblical claim is true or even suggest the information was being presented to that aim?

So why the whole Jesus dying on the cross for our sins?

The answer to your question is I believe Jesus died so that mankind can escape perishing and gain eternal life

I was not aware that stating ones faith based beliefs violates subforum guidelines if you believe it does may I suggest you bring the content to the attention if a moderator.

In the meantime I will reserve the right to answer questions asked of me as I see fit.


Have an excellent weekend,


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS