Prayer

[POI]

Does God fulfill petitionary and/or intercessory prayer requests?

Thank you in advance

[POI]

I would like to "bump" this topic, and ask that <Christians> address this set of observations

I was going to create a new topic, but instead decided to 'resurrect' this one. Assuming God does answer the call to petitionary and/or intercessory prayer(s), why do we not see any existing amputees, downs syndrome, and/or cerebral palsy cases going away?

Thus far, one could make the case that there would be no truly distinguishable way to determine a <'god intervention' (vs) a 'natural' explanation>. But it seems this argument could only be made for cases where some things do sometimes go away; like the reversal of many disease processes (for example).

Where amputees, downs syndrome, and/or cerebral palsy are concerned, seems as though if we are to consider the aforementioned response (1. yes, 2. no, 3. later, 4. alternative plans), options 1. and 3. are off the table. Why? Option 1. is never fulfilled. All such recipients retain such conditions until they die. Option 3. is never fulfilled. All such recipients retain such conditions until they die.

Thus, leaving options 2. and 4. for investigation:

If option 2, then wouldn't this make the following Biblical Verses objectively false (i.e.) Matthew 7:7, Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:24, John 14:13-14, John 16:23?

If option 4, then isn't your prayer request perpetually worthless, in regards to a request for any amputees, downs syndrome, and/or cerebral palsy cases going away?

[1213]

I would like to "bump" this topic, and ask that <Christians> address this set of observations

I was going to create a new topic, but instead decided to 'resurrect' this one. Assuming God does answer the call to petitionary and/or intercessory prayer(s), why do we not see any existing amputees, downs syndrome, and/or cerebral palsy cases going away?
....

5 possible reasons are:

1. You have just not seen everything.

2. People don’t really pray Bible God, but instead for example Trinity, or some other.

3. People have not enough faith.
…“Because of your unbelief. For most assuredly I tell you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will tell this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
Matt. 17:20
But let him ask in faith, without any doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, driven by the wind and tossed. For let that man not think that he will receive anything from the Lord.
James 1:6-7

4. Wrong reasons.
You ask, and don’t receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it for your pleasures.
James 4:3

5. There are more important things that should be fixed first.
He said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, don't be anxious for your life, what you will eat, nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing. Consider the ravens: they don't sow, they don't reap, they have no warehouse or barn, and God feeds them. How much more valuable are you than birds! Which of you by being anxious can add a cubit to his height? If then you aren't able to do even the least things, why are you anxious about the rest? Consider the lilies, how they grow. They don't toil, neither do they spin; yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if this is how God clothes the grass in the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith? Don't seek what you will eat or what you will drink; neither be anxious. For the nations of the world seek after all of these things, but your Father knows that you need these things. But seek God's Kingdom, and all these things will be added to you.
Luke 12:22-31

[Diagoras]

Assuming God does answer the call to petitionary and/or intercessory prayer(s), why do we not see any existing amputees, downs syndrome, and/or cerebral palsy cases going away?

5 possible reasons are:

1. You have just not seen everything.

2. People don’t really pray Bible God, but instead for example Trinity, or some other.

3. People have not enough faith.

4. Wrong reasons.

5. There are more important things that should be fixed first.

<quote edited for length>

1. In the same way that we haven't seen a pink unicorn or a leprechaun? At what point do you start to consider the weight of evidence?

2. Presumably the Bible God can still hear these prayers. He could send a quick sign to explain the correct 'prayer format' easily enough, or else look into their heart, see it was pure but that they were slightly confused about which godly title to use, then just grant the prayer anyway. Surely he's a forgiving enough god to do that?

3. The same could be said of praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, couldn't it?

4. It's difficult to look on this kindly. Some Christians are happy to claim prayer works for clearing up any number of ailments, becoming pregnant, passing an exam, securing a loan, or whatever. Yet in the case of anything that can't currently be cured by current medical knowledge, time, money or random good luck, God supposedly thinks their reason is 'wrong'?

5. Same as number 4 above, really. "Sorry about that cyclone I created that tore your legs off, but Gareth here has a Sociology paper that he really should have studied a bit harder for, so I'm going to help out by boosting him up to a C+."

None of your reasons pass muster.

[POI]

Assuming God does answer the call to petitionary and/or intercessory prayer(s), why do we not see any existing amputees, downs syndrome, and/or cerebral palsy cases going away?

5 possible reasons are:

1. You have just not seen everything.

2. People don’t really pray Bible God, but instead for example Trinity, or some other.

3. People have not enough faith.

4. Wrong reasons.

5. There are more important things that should be fixed first.

<quote edited for length>

1. In the same way that we haven't seen a pink unicorn or a leprechaun? At what point do you start to consider the weight of evidence?

2. Presumably the Bible God can still hear these prayers. He could send a quick sign to explain the correct 'prayer format' easily enough, or else look into their heart, see it was pure but that they were slightly confused about which godly title to use, then just grant the prayer anyway. Surely he's a forgiving enough god to do that?

3. The same could be said of praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, couldn't it?

4. It's difficult to look on this kindly. Some Christians are happy to claim prayer works for clearing up any number of ailments, becoming pregnant, passing an exam, securing a loan, or whatever. Yet in the case of anything that can't currently be cured by current medical knowledge, time, money or random good luck, God supposedly thinks their reason is 'wrong'?

5. Same as number 4 above, really. "Sorry about that cyclone I created that tore your legs off, but Gareth here has a Sociology paper that he really should have studied a bit harder for, so I'm going to help out by boosting him up to a C+."

None of your reasons pass muster.

I was going to respond, when I found time. But then I read your reply and figured you already touched upon many interesting points; for which I'm sure 1213 might have trouble answering

[POI]

For even more discussion...

If God ever answers the call to intercessory and/or petitionary prayer, then aren't we asking God to change His will? If not, why not?

The reason I ask, is that there has been countless times where a loved one is in surgery. The family, in the waiting room, perform prayer. I would imagine some of those prayers would be that the patient recovers. But if the patient does not, the ones who prayed may sometimes state, "it was her time to go."

[TRANSPONDER]

For even more discussion...

If God ever answers the call to intercessory and/or petitionary prayer, then aren't we asking God to change His will? If not, why not?

The reason I ask, is that there has been countless times where a loved one is in surgery. The family, in the waiting room, perform prayer. I would imagine some of those prayers would be that the patient recovers. But if the patient does not, the ones who prayed may sometimes state, "it was her time to go."

I am going to give away a secret. Closely guarded in the Atheist central Comittee strongroom and they will probably have to kill me for revealing it.

Even an atheist powerhouse like Theramin Trees ('losing faith') ran into the apologetic of 'if God has determined who is going to die (because it's their time) or recover before ever they got prayed for, what's the point in prayer anyway?"

Checkmate theists. but the answer is God created everything as the best of all universes given what He knew was going to happen including prayers. He knew thee prayers had to be made before he could decide whether to say no or not, so the prayers are still needed, no matter that God has already decided.

You can have that for free, theists. But a donation to some atheist website would be appreciated.