Faith Heaing?

[POI]

This thread is a spin-off for the already created topic "Prayer"....

The Bible instructs that God grants prayer requests - i.e. (Matthew 7:7), (Matthew 21:22), (Mark 11:24), (John 14:13-14), and (John 16:23); to name a few....

Let's assume the provided faith healer is genuine, and is a true believer. Many faith healers travel from place to place, and apparently offer cures for many, or at least claim to...

Why won't the faith healers ever seem to bother trying to pray for the regrowth of an amputated limb, or pray for the removal of someone's cerebral palsy, or pray for someone's child to no longer have downs syndrome? Or do they? And when they do, do they already know God will not answer the call, as instructed in the Bible?

Or is it because:

A. The faith healer knows God does not cure these particular conditions, and hence, the faith healer does not bother praying for the removal of them? Which begs the follow up question; why does the faith healer know this?
B. The faith healer does pray for the reversal of these conditions, and when these conditions always perpetually continue, the faith healer states "God has not answered (yet)"; even though the unfortunate recipients of these conditions will die with these conditions?
C. Faith healers know, deep down, they are a fraud, and are doing this for other reasons?
D. Other?

In line with Scripture, it seems to me quite odd that God is claimed to answer prayer, time and time again, but always skips over amputees, cerebral palsy, and downs syndrome.?.?.?.?

[Jemima]

Make a prophesy vague enough and the sheep'll shear themselves.

Who said that the prophesy was vague? You know all about it then, do you?

[JoeyKnothead]

God had already foretold through Daniel, that in this "time of the end" God would "cleanse"and "refine" a people, and "purge" them of all false doctrines, (Daniel 12:9-10) so we would expect that at "the time of the harvest" spoken about in Jesus' parable of the "wheat and the weeds" that a separation was already completed by the time Jesus returns as judge of all the world. (Matthew 13:24-30)

What really fusses me on this, is that it's an easy way to "otherize" folks.

"I'm me a bible thumper! I'm 'cleansed'! I'm me 'refined' in the blood of Christ Jesus Amen and the Holy Ghost and Scripture and John 3:16 and died for our sins and don't you make you no cake for you no homo!"

"All who disagree are unclean, unrefined! They's faggots and reprobates and some of em'll dig up crawdads by the light of the moon! At night! At night godammit listen to me! "

"We need to PURGE em all!"

Best I can tell, God is a Goddamned Nazi!

*Where 'Goddamned' and 'godammit' refer to biblical notions of God being upset as heck.

Parables are as unreliable as those who quote em in the complete and un-self recognized inability to show the parables are truth.

They're the product of the shaman, the preacher, the grifter. They danged sure ain't the product of truth.

So we see clearly from scripture that there are only two roads (Matthew 7:13-14).....there are only "wheat and weeds".....and there are only "sheep and goats" (Matthew 25:31-33)....so because, (from God's perspective) there are only two choices, how do we make an informed choice as to which way to go?

We see clearly that some folks think the bible is some kinda special thing, when this section of the site doesn't consider the bible authoritative .

Alas, when folks're told they'll either get em seventy two virgins, or a back stage pass to Heaven, they'll get the goofy thinking.

What do you think?

Your biblical proddings're nothing more'n preaching. Devoid of fact and truth, they sit on the page less bright than the dots that demarcate the sentences.

[JoeyKnothead]

Make a prophesy vague enough and the sheep'll shear themselves.

Who said that the prophesy was vague? You know all about it then, do you?

Naw, so we're left to hope and pray it is you who do.

[POI]

What do you think?

Do JW's believe in petitionary and/or intercessory prayer? If so, my uncle is still waiting. But it instead sounds like God used to answer prayers of actuall healing, but no longer does? Moving forward, He has instead decided to make His current answered prayer much less obvious? I guess answered prayer is met when a JW knocks at your door, or an invite is made?

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines ... r-Prayers/

[Jemima]

Make a prophesy vague enough and the sheep'll shear themselves.

Who said that the prophesy was vague? You know all about it then, do you?

Naw, so we're left to hope and pray it is you who do.

Or not......opinions noted and dismissed as nonsense.....I get it. That is your choice but what you describe sounds like no Christianity I know.
Is it your own? Did you just make it up?

[JoeyKnothead]

Make a prophesy vague enough and the sheep'll shear themselves.

Who said that the prophesy was vague? You know all about it then, do you?

Naw, so we're left to hope and pray it is you who do.

Or not......opinions noted and dismissed as nonsense.....I get it. That is your choice but what you describe sounds like no Christianity I know.

Then surely you can put truth to the aforementioned prophesy?

A reminder, in this section of the site, the bible ain't considered authoritative

Your problem here becomes showing those concerned...

Existed.
Spoke these prophesies.
And that they'll come to be.

Is it your own? Did you just make it up?

I was referencing your telling about these alleged prophesies. I share your confusion in this regard, what with your not providing any confirmatory data on em.

[Jemima]

Do JW's believe in petitionary and/or intercessory prayer?

You mean of the kind made to Mary or the saints in Catholicism? NO.
We address all prayer to God through the only intercessor that the Bible speaks of....Jesus Christ. (1 Timothy 2:5, 6; John 14:6)

If so, my uncle is still waiting.

What is your uncle waiting for?

But it instead sounds like God used to answer prayers of actuall healing, but no longer does?

The apostolic period was for demonstrations of the Holy Spirit....but those were to cease because Paul contrasted the miracles to other more important things like "faith, hope and love".....if people came to Christ merely for the miracles then it betrayed a deep lack of conviction and faith....and also demonstrated a wrong motive....what was God going to do for them?....rather than what they could do for God. The 'getting' had to give way to the 'giving'.

Moving forward, He has instead decided to make His current answered prayer much less obvious? I guess answered prayer is met when a JW knocks at your door, or an invite is made?

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines ... r-Prayers/

You would be surprised how often this happens.....too often to be coincidental. God knows when someone is ready to accept his message of hope. We are the only ones out there preaching about God's Kingdom (or we were before Cv19) Its an amazing experience to have someone tell you that they were just praying to God for help....and we knocked on their door. To see someone embrace the truth of the Bible after years of receiving nothing from their churches but empty platitudes, is a wonderful things....very humbling.

Faith is then placed in God's promises as they hear the message and request a Bible study. Faith grows as we see his purpose unfolding and his care for his spiritual family, working together to help one another, especially in times of crisis.
To experience the unity and love amongst this brotherhood, which includes people of all nationalities, all working side by side in the assignment that Jesus gave them, truly is a modern day miracle. The work Jesus gave us to do is not being done by the churches....it was never encouraged in my church.
In all my years as a JW, I have never had a member of any church come to me with "the good news of the Kingdom"...and that most likely is because they are never taught what it is....how it "comes" and why it is "good news" for the human race. (Matthew 24:14)

Were you ever taught even what the Lord's Prayer means? I know I wasn't. I rattled that prayer off in church every week, but it wasn't until JW's asked me what I was praying for, that I realized I didn't know. Sometimes its the simplest things that catch your attention.

[POI]

But it instead sounds like God used to answer prayers of actuall healing, but no longer does?

The apostolic period was for demonstrations of the Holy Spirit....but those were to cease because Paul contrasted the miracles to other more important things like "faith, hope and love".....if people came to Christ merely for the miracles then it betrayed a deep lack of conviction and faith....and also demonstrated a wrong motive....what was God going to do for them?....rather than what they could do for God. The 'getting' had to give way to the 'giving'.

I disagree here. I doubt God's existence. One reason is because He seems not to answer prayer. If God, in the 30+ years of prayer, ever cured my uncle of His CP, I would have no choice but to conclude that such a God does exist. Thus, His refusal to respond to the countless prayer requests either means He does not care to respond, or maybe there exists no God there to respond. If God exists, He would know me. He would know why I do not believe. He would also know that perpetually not answering such prayer request(s) will further cement my lack in faith/hope to His mere asserted existence.

Hence, if God exists, He is willfully avoiding me. Seems to be somewhat of a contradiction, from an asserted agent who also wants nothing more than for you to have a close and personal relationship with Him?

And I'm also sure God opts not to answer the call of prayer for countless starving children, who die every day; to instead assure others come to Him by faith alone. But wait a minute... Him not answering the more obvious prayer is the reason I doubt His existence in the first place?.?.?. And I doubt I'm going to be one of the elect, by doubting His mere existence?

Moving forward, He has instead decided to make His current answered prayer much less obvious? I guess answered prayer is met when a JW knocks at your door, or an invite is made?

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines ... r-Prayers/

You would be surprised how often this happens.....too often to be coincidental. God knows when someone is ready to accept his message of hope.

You can't be serious? I would imagine the JW conversion rate, from going door to door, is pretty dang low. I would imagine the success rate is somewhere around that of a cold caller, at best. But it must sure feel nice when you get one to follow. But your given 'conclusion', that the one you visited was ready, is nothing short of the classic example of (accepting the hits, and ignoring the misses). Otherwise, JW's would have a 100% success rate; as they would only go to the houses who prayed for such.

[Jemima]

But it instead sounds like God used to answer prayers of actuall healing, but no longer does?

The apostolic period was for demonstrations of the Holy Spirit....but those were to cease because Paul contrasted the miracles to other more important things like "faith, hope and love".....if people came to Christ merely for the miracles then it betrayed a deep lack of conviction and faith....and also demonstrated a wrong motive....what was God going to do for them?....rather than what they could do for God. The 'getting' had to give way to the 'giving'.

I disagree here. I doubt God's existence. One reason is because He seems not to answer prayer. If God, in the 30+ years of prayer, ever cured my uncle of His CP, I would have no choice but to conclude that such a God does exist. Thus, His refusal to respond to the countless prayer requests either means He does not care to respond, or maybe there exists no God there to respond.

People who have this attitude sadly betray a great lack of knowledge as to why we are experiencing the trials of this life at all. Was it ever in God’s purpose for humans to suffer? This tells me how woeful your spiritual education was growing up. I don’t blame you for that, but I do blame the ones who gave you that impression of God in the first place. He is not the great magician in the sky granting wishes. Those who gave you that impression of God simply do not know him, nor have they ever known him.
I too lacked that knowledge growing up with Christendom’s teachings and misrepresentations. They have a lot to answer for IMO.

All of the miracles performed in the first century were a demonstration of what was to come under the rule of God’s kingdom, which the Bible says is a governmental arrangement of God which will take us back to the paradise conditions we lost in the beginning. This life and all it’s trials and tragedies are the work of the devil. It was his rebellion that sparked all this, but abuse of free will has consequences. He was the first to abuse his free will and he took hostages. The human race was taken along for this horrible ride, and the devil managed to even take a third of the angels with him. How? By manipulating their thinking....altering their perceptions.

In order for God to regain his authority over his intelligent, free willed creation, he had to show them all what it meant to disobey him....to take for themselves what he did not give them. They wanted autonomy, but they had no right to it. So allowing them that freedom, and all that goes with it, was the only way to show them how woeful the world could be without God’s guidance and direction. Look where we are.....

God was the one who had the sovereign right to expect obedience to his commands, especially when they were absolutely reasonable. But the devil challenged God’s sovereignty and took the human race down a dead end path of disobedience....those who obeyed him became his slaves. The only way to prove that God’s way was the right way to rule, was to allow the usurper to have what he demanded....to show to every rebel that there are inevitable consequences to their own actions. If God interferes with the outcome, he will devalue the lesson, which will set precedents for all time to come, the value of obedience to the one who gave us life, and who has the right to set reasonable limits to our freedom.

Unless we see why God does not now interfere with the devil’s rulership, we will blame the wrong person for our troubles. If the devil fooled humans into believing that they could live a better life without God, then in the long term, allowing them to reap what they had sown was the best way to not only teach them this valuable lesson but it would also prevent any rebel in the future from ever going down this path again. Now we know first hand how it ends....we have seen it and experienced it for ourselves.

If God exists, He would know me. He would know why I do not believe. He would also know that perpetually not answering such prayer request(s) will further cement my lack in faith/hope to His mere asserted existence.

He will also know that your expectations have been created by his enemy and will endeavour to correct your thinking, if you let him. No one can cement your faith/hope but you. But first you have to have the right attitude in seeking God in the first place. You have to want to get to know him without judging him on the basis of the misinformation that you were given by those who misrepresented him to you.

Hence, if God exists, He is willfully avoiding me. Seems to be somewhat of a contradiction, from an asserted agent who also wants nothing more than for you to have a close and personal relationship with Him?

A barrier is created when we have a wrong attitude. When we approach God with a clenched fist instead of a humble and sincere request for understanding, are we really going to listen when he gives us counsel? Or are we going to find fault and give ourselves excuses and permission to abandon him? Where else is there to go?

Read the first few chapters of the book of Job to see who is responsible for all our troubles, and why God allowed the most faithful man alive at that time to go through such a terrible ordeal. Job represented all of us because his faith was tested to the limit of his endurance, proving that he did not serve God out of a selfish motive, but even when he was taken to within an inch of his life, he proved that his love for God was completely unselfish.
But in the end, God rewarded Job for his faith and not only reversed the situation but it says that he died old and satisfied with his life. (Job 42:12-17)

Do you see that we are all in this test too. Giving up on God because he doesn’t give us what we want is exactly what the devil claims we will do. He virtually said that if he made the going get tough, that the faithful would curse God and leave him. Are we proving that the devil is a liar or is he telling the truth in our case?

Unless we know what is going on behind the scenes, we will fall for his propaganda and play right into his hands.

Knowing too that God can not only reverse all the harm that the devil has done, but he will also make sure that we never remember the bad things that happened. (Isaiah 65:17)

And I'm also sure God opts not to answer the call of prayer for countless starving children, who die every day; to instead assure others come to Him by faith alone. But wait a minute... Him not answering the more obvious prayer is the reason I doubt His existence in the first place?.?.?. And I doubt I'm going to be one of the elect, by doubting His mere existence?

This is also I assume, something left over from your past education....him not answering prayer is perhaps because your hostility is acting as a barrier. God does answer our prayers but in way we often do not expect. There are no miracles now, but God opens up ways to cope with the problems and trials of this life. (1 Corinthians 10:13) He may open a door only to have us slam it in anger because it’s not what we want. Humility is the way to approach God because he detests arrogance.....it is satanic trait that prevents too many people from finding the God of the Bible. Instead of humble requests, God sees angry demands.....he will never answer those requests and only with education we will see the bigger picture and understand why he is giving the devil “enough rope”. We can be part of the problem....or we can be part of God’s solution. We choose.

Not all Christians are of the elect...in fact very few. God created us humans to live forever here on earth. He has not changed his purpose. He always finishes what he starts. (Isaiah 55:11)

Moving forward, He has instead decided to make His current answered prayer much less obvious? I guess answered prayer is met when a JW knocks at your door, or an invite is made?

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines ... r-Prayers/

You would be surprised how often this happens.....too often to be coincidental. God knows when someone is ready to accept his message of hope.

You can't be serious? I would imagine the JW conversion rate, from going door to door, is pretty dang low. I would imagine the success rate is somewhere around that of a cold caller, at best. But it must sure feel nice when you get one to follow. But your given 'conclusion', that the one you visited was ready, is nothing short of the classic example of (accepting the hits, and ignoring the misses). Otherwise, JW's would have a 100% success rate; as they would only go to the houses who prayed for such.
[/quote]
Sorry to disappoint you, but our door to door ministry is only one avenue of our preaching work. (Matthew 10:11-14) It has been more successful than you realise and Bible studies are being conducted all over the world with many requests being answered from our website every day as people seek answers to their Bible questions. But we do not expect a 100% success rate....in fact just the opposite (Matthew 7:13, 14) because unfortunately the deceiver is good at his craft and has always portrayed true servants of God as some kind of evil cult. Jesus experienced the same attitude among his fellow Jews. He told us to expect opposition. (John 15:18-21)

All of Christ’s opposition came from his own corrupt religious leaders. They hated him so much that they plotted his murder. What a shame for those Jews who were fooled into believing them. The devil uses the same tactics over and over....because he knows they work.

If you have the right attitude of heart, God will find you, and he will reveal his truth to you, but not if you create a barrier of hostility. According to the scriptures, I believe that He is at present separating mankind before the judgment. (Matthew 25:31-33) He is choosing citizens for his incoming Kingdom, the one Jesus taught us to pray for. It’s coming, ready or not, so it is we who must demonstrate the qualities that God is looking for in his people, if we want to live the life that he planned for us all along....the one our heart knows is where we belong, we will do as God tells us, because he alone is in control of our future. It will be wonderful if we can just get a handle on the big picture. (Revelation 21:3,4)

[POI]

But it instead sounds like God used to answer prayers of actuall healing, but no longer does?

The apostolic period was for demonstrations of the Holy Spirit....but those were to cease because Paul contrasted the miracles to other more important things like "faith, hope and love".....if people came to Christ merely for the miracles then it betrayed a deep lack of conviction and faith....and also demonstrated a wrong motive....what was God going to do for them?....rather than what they could do for God. The 'getting' had to give way to the 'giving'.

I disagree here. I doubt God's existence. One reason is because He seems not to answer prayer. If God, in the 30+ years of prayer, ever cured my uncle of His CP, I would have no choice but to conclude that such a God does exist. Thus, His refusal to respond to the countless prayer requests either means He does not care to respond, or maybe there exists no God there to respond.

People who have this attitude sadly betray a great lack of knowledge as to why we are experiencing the trials of this life at all. Was it ever in God’s purpose for humans to suffer? This tells me how woeful your spiritual education was growing up. I don’t blame you for that, but I do blame the ones who gave you that impression of God in the first place. He is not the great magician in the sky granting wishes. Those who gave you that impression of God simply do not know him, nor have they ever known him.
I too lacked that knowledge growing up with Christendom’s teachings and misrepresentations. They have a lot to answer for IMO.

All of the miracles performed in the first century were a demonstration of what was to come under the rule of God’s kingdom, which the Bible says is a governmental arrangement of God which will take us back to the paradise conditions we lost in the beginning. This life and all it’s trials and tragedies are the work of the devil. It was his rebellion that sparked all this, but abuse of free will has consequences. He was the first to abuse his free will and he took hostages. The human race was taken along for this horrible ride, and the devil managed to even take a third of the angels with him. How? By manipulating their thinking....altering their perceptions.

In order for God to regain his authority over his intelligent, free willed creation, he had to show them all what it meant to disobey him....to take for themselves what he did not give them. They wanted autonomy, but they had no right to it. So allowing them that freedom, and all that goes with it, was the only way to show them how woeful the world could be without God’s guidance and direction. Look where we are.....

God was the one who had the sovereign right to expect obedience to his commands, especially when they were absolutely reasonable. But the devil challenged God’s sovereignty and took the human race down a dead end path of disobedience....those who obeyed him became his slaves. The only way to prove that God’s way was the right way to rule, was to allow the usurper to have what he demanded....to show to every rebel that there are inevitable consequences to their own actions. If God interferes with the outcome, he will devalue the lesson, which will set precedents for all time to come, the value of obedience to the one who gave us life, and who has the right to set reasonable limits to our freedom.

Unless we see why God does not now interfere with the devil’s rulership, we will blame the wrong person for our troubles. If the devil fooled humans into believing that they could live a better life without God, then in the long term, allowing them to reap what they had sown was the best way to not only teach them this valuable lesson but it would also prevent any rebel in the future from ever going down this path again. Now we know first hand how it ends....we have seen it and experienced it for ourselves.

Are you saying all the ones who pray for God to heal, are being foolish; that God will ignore all prayer requests to heal? And by ignore, I mean He will not heal them?

If so, where does it say that God no longer answers such prayer?

If God exists, He would know me. He would know why I do not believe. He would also know that perpetually not answering such prayer request(s) will further cement my lack in faith/hope to His mere asserted existence.

He will also know that your expectations have been created by his enemy and will endeavour to correct your thinking, if you let him. No one can cement your faith/hope but you. But first you have to have the right attitude in seeking God in the first place. You have to want to get to know him without judging him on the basis of the misinformation that you were given by those who misrepresented him to you.

Your response here is patently false. Satan knows God exists. He still chose to rebel. I don't think He even exists. At present, I think it's all just a story line. To state that you must first 'get your mind right', is incorrect. Satan never had His mind right. Neither did Sal of Tarsus, before he was contacted By God and later converted Please try another argument.

So why now will God not simply reveal Himself to me, so I may make an informed decision of whether or not to follow Him? If my uncle's CP was removed, after prayer, I would have no choice but to reconcile that such a God may actually exist. At which point, I would start to re-evaluate accordingly.

You can't be serious? I would imagine the JW conversion rate, from going door to door, is pretty dang low. I would imagine the success rate is somewhere around that of a cold caller, at best. But it must sure feel nice when you get one to follow. But your given 'conclusion', that the one you visited was ready, is nothing short of the classic example of (accepting the hits, and ignoring the misses). Otherwise, JW's would have a 100% success rate; as they would only go to the houses who prayed for such.

Sorry to disappoint you, but our door to door ministry is only one avenue of our preaching work. (Matthew 10:11-14) It has been more successful than you realise and Bible studies are being conducted all over the world with many requests being answered from our website every day as people seek answers to their Bible questions. But we do not expect a 100% success rate....i

If God restricts answered prayer to JW's reaching and acquiring new members, then God must not answer very much prayer there either. --- As evidence by the very slowly growing number of JW's. Think about it... There currently exists about 8 million JW's world wide. From my understanding, you are to proselytize. All each of you would need to do, is successfully convert one new member a year ---> for the JW population to double in size.

Thus, I render your claims of success dismal, at best. So no, it is not more successful than I realize