Faith Heaing?

[POI]

This thread is a spin-off for the already created topic "Prayer"....

The Bible instructs that God grants prayer requests - i.e. (Matthew 7:7), (Matthew 21:22), (Mark 11:24), (John 14:13-14), and (John 16:23); to name a few....

Let's assume the provided faith healer is genuine, and is a true believer. Many faith healers travel from place to place, and apparently offer cures for many, or at least claim to...

Why won't the faith healers ever seem to bother trying to pray for the regrowth of an amputated limb, or pray for the removal of someone's cerebral palsy, or pray for someone's child to no longer have downs syndrome? Or do they? And when they do, do they already know God will not answer the call, as instructed in the Bible?

Or is it because:

A. The faith healer knows God does not cure these particular conditions, and hence, the faith healer does not bother praying for the removal of them? Which begs the follow up question; why does the faith healer know this?
B. The faith healer does pray for the reversal of these conditions, and when these conditions always perpetually continue, the faith healer states "God has not answered (yet)"; even though the unfortunate recipients of these conditions will die with these conditions?
C. Faith healers know, deep down, they are a fraud, and are doing this for other reasons?
D. Other?

In line with Scripture, it seems to me quite odd that God is claimed to answer prayer, time and time again, but always skips over amputees, cerebral palsy, and downs syndrome.?.?.?.?

[POI]

...
C: No such God exists..
Remember what we were taught in school. If you don't know the answer, and you have to make a guess, choose answer C ...

Why would it be reasonable to choose that, if there is nothing solid to support it? Why not just leave it unsolved?

Sounds like you agree with me, that God ain't answering the call to people with CP, downs and amputations? If so, how do you rationalize this conclusion, when compared to the many Verses which clearly states He will answer such prayer(s)?

-Does this mean no one is truly faithful enough to cover conditions, for which science does not already have a chance to cure?
-Does this mean He no longer answers prayer?
-Does this mean He only answers prayers, which could also have alternative explanations?
-Does this mean God wants all CP, downs, and amputees to stay that way?

Is it possible no such God exists?

BTW, after reading posts #55 and #59, looks like you are slowly but surely trying to back out of the tough questions. I do not blame you

[1213]

...Sounds like you agree with me, that God ain't answering the call to people with CP, downs and amputations? ...

Sorry, I have no reason to believe you in that God doesn't answer "yes" to such prayers. I think it is possible He heals such things, even if it doesn't happen all the time.

[POI]

...Sounds like you agree with me, that God ain't answering the call to people with CP, downs and amputations? ...

Sorry, I have no reason to believe you in that God doesn't answer "yes" to such prayers. I think it is possible He heals such things, even if it doesn't happen all the time.

Great, then as I stated prior... If faith healers would ever have aided in the cure/restoration for CP, downs, and amputees, we would see examples. But we do not. If I were to ask you to find all kinds of 'cures', either in publications or on video, you would have no problem. Don't you find it odd we find none for conditions, for which science cannot address ----> (i.e.) these three?

If you believe God heals such things, then please pray for my uncle to be removed of his CP. If He says no, please ask Him why? Please also tell me why He said no?

Thank you kindly

[1213]

...Don't you find it odd we find none for conditions, for which science cannot address ----> (i.e.) these three?

No.

If you believe God heals such things, then please pray for my uncle to be removed of his CP. If He says no, please ask Him why? Please also tell me why He said no?

Can you first prove that your uncle even exists?

I think I have already said the reasons for the no.

[POI]

...Don't you find it odd we find none for conditions, for which science cannot address ----> (i.e.) these three?

No.

How does this not strike you as ODD?

If you believe God heals such things, then please pray for my uncle to be removed of his CP. If He says no, please ask Him why? Please also tell me why He said no?

Can you first prove that your uncle even exists?

I think I have already said the reasons for the no.

I'm highly suspicious that you are so concerned that my uncle exists. But I assure you he does, and he has CP. He no longer wants to have CP.

I would assume God is a smart fellow. Simply pray for <user> POI's uncle, who have CP, to no longer have CP. If I should be lying, God will deal with me accordingly. You, on the other hand, are out very little. This request will take you all of 10 seconds to complete. --- Much shorter than any time invested in any of these responses...

[Jemima]

This thread is a spin-off for the already created topic "Prayer"....

The Bible instructs that God grants prayer requests - i.e. (Matthew 7:7), (Matthew 21:22), (Mark 11:24), (John 14:13-14), and (John 16:23); to name a few....

We are not living in the apostolic era where miracles were used to bring people to Christ by allowing them to see supernatural evidence for his claim to be the Messiah. But the apostles themselves told us that these gifts would cease in order for the more important aspects of true Christianity to take over.

The apostle Paul wrote....”But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. 12 .....13 Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.”

True Christianity would thereafter be identified, not by sometimes dodgy miracles, but by the more mature aspects of Christ’s teachings....faith, hope and love. Things not easily faked.

Let's assume the provided faith healer is genuine, and is a true believer. Many faith healers travel from place to place, and apparently offer cures for many, or at least claim to...

Why won't the faith healers ever seem to bother trying to pray for the regrowth of an amputated limb, or pray for the removal of someone's cerebral palsy, or pray for someone's child to no longer have downs syndrome? Or do they? And when they do, do they already know God will not answer the call, as instructed in the Bible?

Faith healing today does not have have God’s spirit at its base because what is observed is the obvious lack of success. In the first century, there was no lack of success; all were 100% cured.....and it did not always require the faith of the recipient. It depended more on the faith of the healer. So failures were practically non-existent even for those who had lost or withered limbs. And of course we do not see anyone rising from the dead. These would really be proof of God’s spirit.

So how do we know what is responsible for some apparent successes? Seemingly miracle cures? There is something called the placebo effect, which science cannot explain, and which involves the belief of the subject. It’s the reason why they conduct double blind studies in drug trials. Even those who are not believers can experience unexplained cures for their maladies just by the power of belief in what they are engaging in. It’s the untapped power of the mind.

Or is it because:

A. The faith healer knows God does not cure these particular conditions, and hence, the faith healer does not bother praying for the removal of them? Which begs the follow up question; why does the faith healer know this?

Experience.

B. The faith healer does pray for the reversal of these conditions, and when these conditions always perpetually continue, the faith healer states "God has not answered (yet)"; even though the unfortunate recipients of these conditions will die with these conditions?

It is easier to blame the recipient for their lack of faith than accept the possibility that the power they exert is not from God, but from his deficient mimic.

C. Faith healers know, deep down, they are a fraud, and are doing this for other reasons?
D. Other?

Some are very sincere but deluded. There is some evidence of power exerted, but since it is indicated in scripture that miracles were not to continue past the apostolic era, this power could only come from one other source. The one whom Jesus indicated would create a fake kind of Christianity to lead people away from God rather than to him. So how does this work in the devil’s favour? It makes people sacrifice true “faith, hope and love”, for tricks that form the bass for their faith. But when such fail, their faith is then threatened and often lost. People are made to feel like failures whom God has rejected when their cures are not forthcoming.

In line with Scripture, it seems to me quite odd that God is claimed to answer prayer, time and time again, but always skips over amputees, cerebral palsy, and downs syndrome.?.?.?.?[/color]

All such cures are promised when the Kingdom of God takes over rulership of this earth. Those things performed in the first century were a small demonstration of what was to come at that future time.

Revelation 21:3-4 tells us what this will mean for the human race....
“With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

The Bible answers all these question for those who have bothered to inform themselves of its contents.

[brunumb]

...Don't you find it odd we find none for conditions, for which science cannot address ----> (i.e.) these three?

No.

If you believe God heals such things, then please pray for my uncle to be removed of his CP. If He says no, please ask Him why? Please also tell me why He said no?

Can you first prove that your uncle even exists?

I think I have already said the reasons for the no.

From my point of view those answers should have been:

Yes

Can you first prove that God even exists?

As you can see, my versions contribute as much as yours to the discussion of the issue of God's healing. Nothing. That is an effective avoidance strategy really.

[POI]

The Bible answers all these question for those who have bothered to inform themselves of its contents.

Does this mean adhering to Charles Russell's interpretation of the Bible?

[Jemima]

The Bible answers all these question for those who have bothered to inform themselves of its contents.

Does this mean adhering to Charles Russell's interpretation of the Bible?

Contrary to popular belief, Charles Russel was not the 'founder' of Jehovah's Witnesses, he was the President of the Watchtower Society, which was and still is a Bible and Tract Society, responsible for printing and distributing Bibles and Bible literature around the world. The "Watchtower" is used by Jehovah's Witnesses in their work. It is a legal entity required by law for the printing and distribution of vast quantities of literature.

In the late 1800's, Russell was part of a group of like minded individuals from various denominations in Christendom, who undertook a thorough study of the Bible for themselves, weary of Christendom's dogma. Since Russell was a gifted public speaker, he was looked on as the spokesman for the "International Bible Students Association" (as we were then known) His debates with Christendom's clergy were widely recognized as masterful because of his vast Bible knowledge. The clergy of Christendom had only learned "Theology". They had learned their church's doctrines and a few supporting scriptures, but their Bible knowledge was very poor, which put them at a distinct disadvantage.

God had already foretold through Daniel, that in this "time of the end" God would "cleanse"and "refine" a people, and "purge" them of all false doctrines, (Daniel 12:9-10) so we would expect that at "the time of the harvest" spoken about in Jesus' parable of the "wheat and the weeds" that a separation was already completed by the time Jesus returns as judge of all the world. (Matthew 13:24-30)

So we see clearly from scripture that there are only two roads (Matthew 7:13-14).....there are only "wheat and weeds".....and there are only "sheep and goats" (Matthew 25:31-33)....so because, (from God's perspective) there are only two choices, how do we make an informed choice as to which way to go?

What do you think?

[JoeyKnothead]

...
...
God had already foretold through Daniel, that in this "time of the end" God would "cleanse"and "refine" a people, and "purge" them of all false doctrines, (Daniel 12:9-10) so we would expect that at "the time of the harvest" spoken about in Jesus' parable of the "wheat and the weeds" that a separation was already completed by the time Jesus returns as judge of all the world. (Matthew 13:24-30)

So we see clearly from scripture that there are only two roads (Matthew 7:13-14).....there are only "wheat and weeds".....and there are only "sheep and goats" (Matthew 25:31-33)....so because, (from God's perspective) there are only two choices, how do we make an informed choice as to which way to go?

We seek the truth, not ancient tales that have little to no relation to it.

What do you think?

Make a prophesy vague enough and the sheep'll shear themselves.