God's Position Regarding Rape Victims

[POI]

"“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."

The theist will argue that a woman either lives with their parents/guardians, or lives with their husband. The theist will argue that if the woman is not rendered a virgin, no man will want her for marriage. And hence, the woman is to either remain with their parents/guardians for life, or be alone without financial support. And in this time, they are not able to work for themselves. So ultimately, they will die, once their elders perish before them.

I ask, is forcing the rapist to marry the now defiled woman just punishment? According to God, it is.

Debate questions...

Why not order the rapist to be a slave to the bride, or be required to pay restitution to the victim, for the rest of his life?
Why not also order for his castration, to assure he can no longer rape her, or others?
Why not issue a law that it is okay to marry woman who were unlawfully defiled by a man or men?

The Torah was harsh... God has no problem issuing extreme punishment, where He deems necessary.

What's to keep a man, who is smitten with a woman he wants to marry, but she rejects his advances, from simply raping her to achieve his goal of marrying her?

The Bible's sanctioned punishment is to force him to marry her. Maybe this is what he wants.

[POI]

Do women have a say in the matter? Are they asked for their own consent to the instructed proposition? No

I personally don’t believe virgin man could rape a virgin woman so that the woman would not really allow that, which is the only case when marriage could be possible between them, by that rule.

Rape happens all the time, passed, present, and future. Back then, the father decided the rapist's fate, if it was his virgin daughter. Be paid, or hand the daughter over to the rapist. The rape victim has no say in the matter. If the payment was not going to be enough, then some fathers may hand them over to the rapist. But let's just say that you want to argue that no father would ever think of handing their daughter over to their rapist! I would agree with that sentiment. But I then ask... Why does God deem such an action acceptable and moral?.?.?.?

Do you find it logical that a female rape victim would want to be bound to their rapist for life? No

I don’t think women are always logical, in the way I think is logical. For example, there are lot of women that sent letter to dangerous prisoners and seem to be in love with them. I don’t think it is logical, or reasonable, but because of that, I wouldn’t be surprised, if in the rare case when the rapist is not killed, they could actually have relationship that they both like.

However, if I would be the judge, I would evaluate the case by listening them both and what and why happened. After that I would decide what would be the best solution.

The father was to decide. No one else. The woman has NO say in the matter. Your analogy is not applicable here... You are assuming the woman has the right to evaluate. If the father should decide to give her to the rapist, she is to obey; and then submit to the rapist; since they are now married.

Remember, it is no longer rape when you are married.

Once married, does is the female instructed to submit to the male in everything? Yes

To what is that based on?

I already gave you Chapter and Verse, but I will be happy to provide again. It states to submit twice, just to drive the point home:

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

If we are speaking of Christian people, I think it would be good to understand that the men are required to love the women, be even willing to die for them. If men really do so, I don’t think women would have anything bad.

Sure, the rapist may even love the victim a lot, but the rape victim may not love the rapist. Maybe that's why he raped her to begin with, so he can have her forever. Maybe she never wanted him. And to boot, under Scriptural law, she must then submit to him.

Where do you think the tradition of the father giving the bride away, at a wedding, came from

[Falling Light 101]

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So …. reading Deu 22:28  from the original Hebrew manuscripts

:28  If a man lay hold on a woman and lie with her and they be found having sex.

Deu 22:29  ונתן THEN GIVE - האישׁ THE MAN - השׁכב WHO LAY DOWN - עמה WITH HER, - לאבי THE FATHER - הנער OF THE YOUNG WOMAN - חמשׁים FIFTY - כסף SILVER - ולו תהיה - IF HE HAD לאשׁה A WOMAN - תחת UNDER HIM - אשׁר WHO - ענה ANSWERED, - לא NOT - יוכל CAN HE - שׁלחה PUT HER AWAY - כל ALL - ימיו׃ HIS DAYS

The passage is referring to a man who takes hold of a woman and the woman had ANSWERED or RESPONDED / REPLIED to his sexual advances.
ולו תהיה - IF HE HAD - לאשׁה A WOMAN - תחת UNDER HIM - אשׁר WHO - ענה ANSWERED,
The two Hebrew words that the Translators deleted from the Translation are

LU / LUH - ולו / לו = means = If -

LU / LUH / לו in Hebrew means “ IF “ or would, could, may, what may be, peradventure

Gen 17:18 O that Ishmael “ WOULD - לו “ live before thee!
לוGen 23:13 But if “ לו “ thou will give it
Gen 30:34 Laban said, I “ WOULD THAT - לו “
Gen 50:15 Joseph's brethren said, Joseph “ WOULD - לו “ hate us.
Num 14:2 “ WOULD - לו “ that we had died in Egypt! or ……….in this wilderness!
Num 20:3 “ WOULD - ולו “ that we had died
Jos 7:7 “ WOULD - ולו “ to God we had been content…… on the other side Jordan!
Jdg 8:19 I “ WOULD - לו “ not slay you.
Jdg 13:23 The Lord “ WOULD - לו “ not have received a burnt offering
Job 16:4 I also “ could - לו “ speak as ye do
Eze 14:15 “ IF - לו “ I cause a beasts to pass through the land
Mic 2:11 “ IF - לו “ a man walking in the spirit

לוGen 2:19 God brought animals unto Adam to see what he “ WOULD - לו “ call them


Num 22:29 for now “ WOULD - לו “ I kill thee
Jos 15:16 “ IF - לו “ I give Achsah my daughter to wife.
Jos 17:18 iron chariots, “ IF - לו “ they be strong.
Gen 16:2 IF = לו “ ~ that I may obtain children
Gen 18:24 “ IF = לו “ ~ fifty in Sodom
Gen 18:28 IF = לו “ ~ lacking five in Sodom
Gen 18:29 IF = לו “ ~ fourty in Sodom
Gen 18:30 IF = לו “ ~ thirty in Sodom
Gen 24:5 + Gen 24:39 IF = לו “ ~ the woman
Gen 32:20 IF = לו “ ~ he will accept
Gen 43:12 IF = לו “ ~ it was an oversight
Num 22:6 IF = לו “ ~ I shall prevail,
Num 22:11 IF = לו “ ~ I shall be able
Num 23:3 IF = לו “ ~ the LORD will come
Num 23:27 IF = לו “ ~ it will please God
Jos 9:7 IF = לו “ ~ you dwell among us;
Jos 14:12 IF = לו “ ~ so be the LORD
1Sa 6:5 IF = לו “ ~ he will lighten his hand
1Sa 9:6 IF = לו “ ~ he can shew
1Sa 14:6 + 2Sa 16:12 if = לו “ ~ may be that the LORD
2Sa 14:15 if = לו “ ~ may be that the king
1Ki 18:27 peradventure = לו “ ~ he sleepeth
1Ki 20:31 peradventure = לו “ ~ he will save thy life.
2Ki 19:4 IF = לו “ ~ the LORD………..will hear


Job 1:5 It may be = אול “ ~ that my sons sinned,
Isa 37:4 It may be = אול “ ~ the LORD…… will hear
Isa 47:12 if so be = אול “ ~ …… if so be = אול “ ~
Jer 51:8 if so be = אול “ ~ she may be healed.
Lam 3:29 if so be = אול “ ~ there may be hope.
Eze 12:3 it may be = אול “ ~ they will consider
Hos 8:7 if so be = אול “ ~ that it yield
Amo 5:15 it may be = אול “ ~ that the LORD
Jon 1:6 if so be = אול “ ~ that God
Zep 2:3 it may be = אול “ ~ ye will be hidden

The second Hebrew word that the translators deleted, is the word - עֲנָה - ‛ănâh
עֲנָה - ‛ănâh / Anna / An-aw' - Meaning = To give an answer; - to respond, reply to

So again …. reading Deu 22:28  from the original Hebrew manuscripts

:28  If a man lay hold on a woman and lie with her and they be found having sex.

Deu 22:29  ונתן THEN GIVE - האישׁ THE MAN - השׁכב WHO LAY DOWN - עמה WITH HER, - לאבי THE FATHER - הנער OF THE YOUNG WOMAN - חמשׁים FIFTY - כסף SILVER - ולו תהיה - IF HE HAD לאשׁה A WOMAN - תחת UNDER HIM - אשׁר WHO - ענה ANSWERED, - לא NOT - יוכל CAN HE - שׁלחה PUT HER AWAY - כל ALL - ימיו׃ HIS DAYS

The passage is referring to a man who takes hold of a woman and the woman had ANSWERED or RESPONDED / REPLIED to his sexual advances.
ולו תהיה - IF HE HAD - לאשׁה A WOMAN - תחת UNDER HIM - אשׁר WHO - ענה ANSWERED,

Deu 19:18  He ANSWERED - עֲנָה
Jdg 19:28  But none ANSWERED - עֲנָה
1Sa 9:17  Saul, ANSWERED - עֲנָה
1Sa 14:37  But he did not ANSWER - עֲנָה
1Sa 28:6  The LORD did not ANSWER - עֲנָה
1Ki 18:26  there was no voice, nor any that ANSWERED - עֲנָה
1Ki 18:29  was neither voice, nor any to answer ANSWER - עֲנָה
Job 11:2  Should not the multitude of words be ANSWERED - עֲנָה
Job 15:2  Should a wise man ANSWER - עֲנָה. 
Job 33:13  for he giveth no ANSWER - עֲנָה
Job 35:12  but none giveth ANSWER - עֲנָה
Pro 18:23  the rich roughly ANSWER - עֲנָה
Pro 26:5  ANSWER - עֲנָה a fool according to his folly
Ecc 10:19  money ANSWERETH - עֲנָה all things. 
Isa 14:32  What shall one then ANSWER - עֲנָה
Isa 58:9  + 23:35  + 42:4  The LORD shall ANSWER - עֲנָה
Dan 2:15  + 3:25  He ANSWERED
Dan 3:14  + 3:14  + 3:28  + 3:19  Then Nebuchadnezzar ANSWER - עֲנָה
Dan 2:8  + 2:26  + 5:13  And the king ANSWERED - עֲנָה
Dan 2:27  + 7:2  + 5:17  Then Daniel ANSWERed - עֲנָה
Dan 6:13 + 3:24    Then they ANSWERED - עֲנָה

When we go to the original manuscripts we find nothing but a scattered perversion of altered, deleted, and a changing of words in a scattered confusing, and jumbled mess - that the translators purposefully and deliberately altered and changed the Old Testament.

It would take pages upon pages to unravel and explain this fact in full detail - I have the proof it is all in the manuscripts - but unfortunately, there is a lack of honesty and space. it would only lead to self-inflicted confusion upon the majority.

THEN GIVE THE MAN WHO LAY DOWN WITH HER, THE FATHER OF THE YOUNG WOMAN FIFTY SILVER IF HE HAD A WOMAN UNDER HIM WHO ANSWERED,

NOT CAN HE PUT HER AWAY ALL HIS DAYS

The last sentence should have been the next verse - the following verse - but Trinitarians rearrange and move the words in a different order and change words and add words

arranging the verses how they need them to be molded to the changes they have inserted.

This word - ענה - ANSWER is a word in the manuscripts that has many, many multiple meanings - meaning to many, many situations - it is like a universal word in nature that takes on many forms of explaining a response or impulse.

ענה - is almost identical to the Hebrew word meaning to vex or humble and afflict but the translators change it when it comes to sex and marriage - but the manuscripts are referring to conditions where a woman answering or the complicit and in agreement and answering and complying in agreement with a sexual advance.

not saying she was humbled or afflicted - this is not in the manuscripts.

They even attempt to change the passage to say that a man and the married woman caught in adultery who was to be stoned to death - the women who was also being stoned was forced and raped and afflicted and humbled and vexed - but the manuscripts say she answered / complied.

There really is no severe punishment for any man having casual sex with an unmarried woman in the bible - either it was rape or not - and if not, they both are to be held responsible for being honest and not lying and deceiving another man who would later mary the woman - while she lies and claims to be a virgin

Blood Crimes Are Real.

[JoeyKnothead]

Post deleted for it's a commonly held, and generally good notion, that when ya reply to a post, ya put your reply in there when ya do.

I know, it's counterintuitive, but that's how the smart folks carry on.

[JoeyKnothead]

I saw me that argument on how it's okay to pay a daddy pimp fee to the victim of rape...

Unless it was, she was all her betrothed and all.

So now I'm just gonna put it out there...

Ladies, and a good bunch of y'all are just pretty as heck, but what I come to say is, I got me a sock full of various and varied coins, from the nickels and the dimes, to that Kennedy half dollar. And how funny is that? Got half his head blowed off, and they put half his head on the coin. But anyway, now some of y'all, y'all done been betrothed, and I ain't trying to get me killed just to rape ya. I'm sorry, y'al're good folks, but we rapists, well we can't afford us a whole bunch, much less to end end up like Kennedy.

So all y'all unbetrothed laides, now some of y'all're pretty, but I'm sorry to say, some of ya ain't. Now that ain't ain't y'all's fault, but it does reflect on your price in the rape market. So I ask ya beforehand, please get with your daddy pimp there, and adjust your prices in accordance.

Now we got that settled, and I'm sorry for it, but some of y'all, I've found out it's just cheaper to rape ya, pay the fine, and how bout that. Now that's disgusting. It's a pitiful thought. But, it does seem to relieve my burden on having to woo ya up real good. Y'all can't imagine how much a fancy meal like McDonald's can set a rapist back.

So please, all y'all worthless unbetrothed ladies, accept this limited, one time, internet only offer. Let me rape ya, and just hush up, and whatever savings we make from not telling your daddy pimp, we'll split it right down the middle, seventy five for me, and twenty five for you.

[JoeyKnothead]

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Exo 22:16  And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 

:17  If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. 

If - there was no proof of rape, then the man who had sex with the woman who accused Him of rape - was expected to PROVIDE SUPPORT to the woman for the rest of His life - just for seducing her.


If, a woman is sexually assaulted in the Bible - the BIBLICAL LAW DEMANDS that the Rapist financially supports the woman He rapes - even if she does not want to marry Him.

And if she is truly raped and unwilling of Her own free will, - then obviously, she will never marry the man and the Bible demands that He work for the rest of His life to support the victim or be put to death.

As similar to a marriage contract - He SUPPORTS and PROVIDES SUPPORT for the rest of His life.

It ain't right right to holler out "Stupid!" in the middle of someone telling something, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why it's wrong to have done it.

A mandatory lawsuit / full automatic.

In the Bible - The rapists, and the slave traders, kidnappers are to be - put to death. Mandatory death -

And If a woman is forced into sexual intercourse and not completely complicit but slightly resisted at the start - but gave in and encouraged and proceeded to participate and REFUSED TO HAVE THE WILL TO SAY NO - AND --- FAILED TO RESIST - -

and - it is not a violent rape- the woman STILL MUST be supported by the rapist - and the father can step in on his daughter's behalf .

I see many people who complain about only 50 shekels for raping a woman being immediately paid to the father - but just because the law of the Bible would have demanded a trillion dollar lawsuit - it does not mean that rape was not a big deal. This was a huge debt at this time - that the rapist was immediately to pay and HE fell into debt automatically. Also, the rapist was to support the woman He raped for the rest of Her life. OF COURSE - THE FATHER WOULD BE ALLOWED TO PREVENT HIS DAUGHTER FROM MARRYING A RAPIST.

One shekel of gold converted to gram equals to 11.34 g.

Exo 22:16 And if a man seduces a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 17 BUT If her father utterly refuses to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

+ - You see. that the Decision to Keep a woman in marriage, was NEVER, NEVER up to the RAPIST.

By Blood tradition, the RAPIST was supposed to remain married to any Virgin or Widow that he exchanged bodily fluids with. But the Decision was not His. - The Father and the victim would receive a huge and enormous large amount of money that the rapist would be indebted for - and the victim / daughter / could marry another man in the future.

Some dowries in the Bible were as big as entire cities - others were entire pieces of land and hired servants, workers, and property and gold and silver. The Rapist worked for the rest of His life until paying the settlement of the penalty for the Crime.

Today - there is no death penalty for the crime of rape, BUT in the Bible the reason that a man receives the death penalty for raping a woman who is already engaged - this is because the engaged woman already has a plan for her future, she has already decided her future and her engagement plans already have been made - her husband who is planning to marry her has already committed to a financial plan for the womans future.

THE RAPIST IS NOT NEEDED IN ORDER TO FINANCIALLY REIMBURSE THE ENGAGED WOMAN HE HAS RAPED. HE CAN BE PUT TO DEATH AUTOMATICALLY - and the woman can proceed to marry the man she is engaged to.

BUT - when a woman is not engaged - the rapist is legally bound / obligated to pay the penalty to reimburse the women he has raped. This could take many, many years for the rapist to pay for his crime.

KILLING THE RAPIST - who rapes a woman who is not engaged or betrothed - the death of the rapist would never help the victim - the rapist is expected to legally financially support the victim - and the victim is free to refuse to marry the rapist.

The father or the authorities = seeing that any woman was forced or raped, they will enforce the law and the woman will not be obligated to marry a man who has raped her.


Today - there is no death penalty for the basic crime of rape, TODAY - Rape is punished by a maximum of fifteen years imprisonment.

Rape is punished by a maximum of twenty years imprisonment in certain aggravating factors (including victim under age of 15).

Rape is punished by a maximum of thirty years' criminal imprisonment where it caused the death of the victim.

but in the Bible - if the woman has not engaged or betrothed - the rapist is punished by financially supporting his victim

and if the woman is engaged - the rapist is given a fully automatic IMMEDIATE DEATH SENTENCE and put to death.

[Falling Light 101]

Would you not take of the daughters of Canaan. Isaac's mother was asking him to not marry a Canaanite woman.