Is everything the bible says 100% true?

[nobspeople]

Granted, here, we are to avoid using the Bible as the sole source to prove that Christianity is true, this isn't about the bible being the source, but rather or not it's entirely true, from beginning to end.

Are the words in the bible God's words, the words of God's follower(s) only, God speaking through his follower(s) or are they a mix?
If they ARE God's words, how do you know?
If they're NOT God's words, why all the emphasis on it at all (at least more so than other religious works)?
If they're a MIX of God's words and the words of his follower(s), how do you KNOW the difference? And how do you convince others you're right in your view? Or is that even necessary?

[Tcg]

To answer the question on the topic, two points must be analyzed:

1) the different types of information that the Bible contains;
2) what does mean that the Bible was inspired by God.

For example, Paul probably mentions a scripture from the book of Job here:

1 Cor. 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.”

It is about something told by Eliphaz, one of Job's "friends":

Job 5:13 He catches the wise in their own cunning,
So that the plans of the shrewd are thwarted.

BUT, a big BUT, Eliphaz was a practitioner of spiritism as we can verify in Job 4:15-17, and we know perfectly well that this religious practice consists of communication with spirits that are disobedient to God and condemned by God himself. In fact, at the end of the debates with Job, Jehovah shows his disapproval to Eliphaz:

Job 42:7 After Jehovah had spoken these words to Job, Jehovah said to Elʹi·phaz the Teʹman·ite:
“My anger burns against you and your two companions, for you have not spoken the truth about me as my servant Job has. 8 Now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job, and offer up a burnt sacrifice for yourselves. And my servant Job will pray for you. I will surely accept his request not to deal with you according to your foolishness, for you have not spoken the truth about me as my servant Job has.”

Then: Did Paul quote Eliphaz because he considered his words to be inspired by God?

The truth is that Jehovah caused Eliphaz's words to be recorded for another purpose. And what is the purpose for which certain things were written and reaffirmed under inspiration?

2 Tim. 2:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Rom. 5:4 For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.

1 Cor. 10:11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come.

Using claims from the Bible to support claims about the Bible is a fail. (...) Tcg

I guess you are not very good to be a lawyer.

This simple retort does nothing to resolve the fallacy your argument is based on.


Tcg

[1213]

...The burning bush. Real, metaphor, lie, misunderstanding, or something else?
How do you believe this?

I believe it actually happened as told in the Bible. And I believe it because I have enough reason to trust to the Bible and also because I think best explanation us to have the story is that it actually happened.

...Many religious texts exist outside the christian religion - some are very similar. Are you saying all those people that wrote those religions - even the ones so very similar to christianity...

Please give one example.

[brunumb]

“My anger burns against you and your two companions, for you have not spoken the truth about me as my servant Job has. 8 Now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job, and offer up a burnt sacrifice for yourselves. And my servant Job will pray for you. I will surely accept his request not to deal with you according to your foolishness, for you have not spoken the truth about me as my servant Job has.”

My head spins when I read stuff like that. What sort of deity gets involved in such primitive and ridiculous engagements with mere human beings? It's laughable. is this all true? Of course not. It is just the ramblings of ancient, superstitious people propping up their religion.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 1213 in post #13]

I think best explanation us to have the story is that it actually happened.

This shows perception plays a key role. Some would 'think the best explanation' is that the story is a metaphor. Other would say it happened in a similar way, but was embellished (for various reasons). Others would say it's an outright lie. It all depends on whom is asked it seems.

Please give one example [Many religious texts exist outside the christian religion - some are very similar]

Islam. Judaism. Many native Americans have their own religious beliefs, traditions and deities. Greeks had their god (which may not count as similar but do count as religious texts outside the christian religion). Hinduism, Buddhism, both have religious texts like christianity does.
You can't honestly say there's not other religions outside the christian religion that aren't similar, much less simply exist.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to 1213 in post #13]

I think best explanation us to have the story is that it actually happened.

This shows perception plays a key role. Some would 'think the best explanation' is that the story is a metaphor. Other would say it happened in a similar way, but was embellished (for various reasons). Others would say it's an outright lie. It all depends on whom is asked it seems.

Please give one example [Many religious texts exist outside the christian religion - some are very similar]

Islam. Judaism. Many native Americans have their own religious beliefs, traditions and deities. Greeks had their god (which may not count as similar but do count as religious texts outside the christian religion). Hinduism, Buddhism, both have religious texts like christianity does.
You can't honestly say there's not other religions outside the christian religion that aren't similar, much less simply exist.

Quite so. It is rather a puzzle that Christian apologists just suppose the Bible should be trusted just because it's there, while presumably they dismiss all the other Holy Books as not true.

I hate to labour the point, but the whole of the Christianity debate comes down to the Bible ('Who made everything, then?' is just a starting -point - of itself it doesn't validate any one religion) and rather the NT (for all that the believers so often reference the OT) because they so easily dismiss anything not so good in the OT as 'Jesus changed it all' (1).

And the validity of Christianity depends specifically on the Resurrection - claim. It is not unknown that many argue for a Jesus as a teacher, a rabbi, a radical a Jewish reformer or whatever, but not as a divine being. It cannot be said often enough: if the resurrection is not true, then Christianity collapses, even if there WAS a real Jesus.

So it comes down in the end (or so I argue) to countering this unquestioning acceptance of the Bible. It should be questioned, but the doubters need good reasons to doubt it. That in my view is what the debate is about and all that it's about. Argument from morality or who gives more to charity or the Great Atrocity debate is all irrelevant.

(1) though this often comes down to a discussion of what specifically Jesus changed of the OT and what he endorsed as still valid. It is remarkable that Jesus specifically trashed the Sabbath - keeping of the Jews but apparently endorsed Genesis - which we know is false unless we are science - deniers.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #16]

It is rather a puzzle that Christian apologists just suppose the Bible should be trusted just because it's there, while presumably they dismiss all the other Holy Books as not true.

Well, not when they're taught to do so. Christianity isn't about independent thought, it's about doing what you're told or else.

the whole of the Christianity debate comes down to the Bible ('Who made everything, then?' is just a starting -point - of itself it doesn't validate any one religion) and rather the NT (for all that the believers so often reference the OT) because they so easily dismiss anything not so good in the OT as 'Jesus changed it all' (1).

Sure seems that way

if the resurrection is not true, then Christianity collapses, even if there WAS a real Jesus.

I see your point, but not sure I agree with it in total. I'd be willing to bet good money christians could twist passages, contort word's definitions, pick-n-choose just enough to say 'Yeah, but it's not really about the resurrection. I'm not sure what they'd find, but with something based on belief and not facts, I'm sure one of the millions of disciples would be able to pull it off. And the sheep will follow along.

countering this unquestioning acceptance of the Bible. It should be questioned, but the doubters need good reasons to doubt it.

Not sure one could counter the acceptance of the bible enough for anyone who believes to no longer believe, unless, that disbelief comes from within the individual themselves.

That's one of the major draws of christianity and the bible: no matter what people say, it all relies on belief. And one can believe in anything they want, no matter what.

[TRANSPONDER]

To answer the question on the topic, two points must be analyzed:

1) the different types of information that the Bible contains;
2) what does mean that the Bible was inspired by God.

For example, Paul probably mentions a scripture from the book of Job here:

1 Cor. 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.”

It is about something told by Eliphaz, one of Job's "friends":

Job 5:13 He catches the wise in their own cunning,
So that the plans of the shrewd are thwarted.

BUT, a big BUT, Eliphaz was a practitioner of spiritism as we can verify in Job 4:15-17, and we know perfectly well that this religious practice consists of communication with spirits that are disobedient to God and condemned by God himself. In fact, at the end of the debates with Job, Jehovah shows his disapproval to Eliphaz:

Job 42:7 After Jehovah had spoken these words to Job, Jehovah said to Elʹi·phaz the Teʹman·ite:
“My anger burns against you and your two companions, for you have not spoken the truth about me as my servant Job has. 8 Now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job, and offer up a burnt sacrifice for yourselves. And my servant Job will pray for you. I will surely accept his request not to deal with you according to your foolishness, for you have not spoken the truth about me as my servant Job has.”

Then: Did Paul quote Eliphaz because he considered his words to be inspired by God?

The truth is that Jehovah caused Eliphaz's words to be recorded for another purpose. And what is the purpose for which certain things were written and reaffirmed under inspiration?

2 Tim. 2:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Rom. 5:4 For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.

1 Cor. 10:11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come.

Using claims from the Bible to support claims about the Bible is a fail. (...) Tcg

I guess you are not very good to be a lawyer.

I'd avoid personals, Eloi . It is a well known argument that asserting what is in the Bible is true because it is in the Bible is a fallacy. A Lawyer would know that a witness statement is not going to be accepted as true just because he or she has said it. Nor of course rejected without good reason.

Thus, I do give weight to the idea that a statement can't be rejected out of hand; it has to be credibly shown to be open to serious doubt and question.

That's the name of the game with the Bible - Doubt and Question. It is necessary and valid to do that, and easy dismissal of the Bible as nonsense is as invalid as glib acceptance of the Bible without question on Faith.

[1213]

...Islam. Judaism. Many native Americans have their own religious beliefs, traditions and deities. Greeks had their god (which may not count as similar but do count as religious texts outside the christian religion). Hinduism, Buddhism, both have religious texts like christianity does.
You can't honestly say there's not other religions outside the christian religion that aren't similar, much less simply exist.

Ok, if it is enough to have a god, then they all are similar. I think all people have something as their god. So, all are the same.

[1213]

...while presumably they dismiss all the other Holy Books as not true.

I have no reason to say the others are not true. It is possible that other god have existed and said things. I just wouldn't keep the other gods as my God.

...It cannot be said often enough: if the resurrection is not true, then Christianity collapses, even if there WAS a real Jesus.

What do you think Christianity means? I think it is the teachings of Jesus and I think they are good, even if Jesus and God would not be real.

...It is remarkable that Jesus specifically trashed the Sabbath -...

I don't think that is true.

[brunumb]

It is possible that other god have existed and said things. I just wouldn't keep the other gods as my God.

I suppose one fictional god is as good as any other. Pick one you like and stick with it. If someone needs a security blanket, or a crutch to lean on that helps them not to do bad things, then I say go for it. Just don't preach it as the truth and try to convince others to follow in the same footsteps is all I ask.