Why believe in God at all?

[nobspeople]

The obvious, selfish answer is 'to get into heaven'. But why else? Why should one believe in god? A god that plays aloof, many times allows the bed to prosper while the good suffer; a god that can create the whole of everything yet needs your money for his churches and spreading his word; a god that allowed the whole species to fall into sin right off the bat; a god that required himself/his son/himself to live and 'die' as a sacrifice to cover the sins of his creation - sins which he allowed; a god that allows 'wolves' into his flock to guide his 'sheep'; a god that won't allow himself to be proven and, instead, relies on faith - faith of flawed creatures - then allows eternal damnation (again, according to some) for not having enough faith; a god that allows his own disciples to argue amongst themselves over, many times, small, ambiguous things; a god that couldn't even write his own story; a god that seems to favor some over others; a god that can't be fully understood. And so on.
What benefits, outside of heaven, does God give that no one or nothing else gives?

[JehovahsWitness]

How do you know it didn't already happen?

Are you asking me how do I know Jesus hasnt already killed off all wicked humans...

Completely destroyed every single human government ...

And we are not currently living in a world without war suffering, sickness or death?



JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

SATAN , HUMAN SUFFERING and .... THE ISSUE OF UNIVERSAL SOVEREIGNTY

[TRANSPONDER]

What, exactly, is your definition of "generation" ....?

Definition of GENERATION
1 a : a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor
b : a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously the younger generation
c : a group of individuals having contemporaneously* a status (such as that of students in a school) which each one holds only for a limited period
d : a type or class of objects usually developed from an earlier type
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generation

contemporaneous: Existing, occurring, or originating during the same time



FURTHER READING
https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... genea.html





RELATED POSTS

What, exactly, is the definition of a "generation" ?
viewtopic.php?p=1047976#p1047976

Which generation did Jesus say would see the end of the present system of things?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 61#p775061

How long is a "biblical" generation ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 02#p898902

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE GENTILE TIMES , THE LAST DAYS and ...THE GENERATION

Well, you won't be astonished to learn that I don't credit a word of that, either the interpretation of Jesus' words on the mount of Olives that clearly referred to something that was supposed to happen in the lives of at least Some of those listening to him, rather than nearly 2,000 years later, or the fiddling of figures to try to make it relate to a date soon enough that it tries to panic us into rushing into religion but not so soon that we shall see it fail to happen - just as the many times it failed before.

And it's off -topic anyway.

[JehovahsWitness]

What, exactly, is your definition of "generation" ....?

Definition of GENERATION
1 a : a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor
b : a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously the younger generation
c : a group of individuals having contemporaneously* a status (such as that of students in a school) which each one holds only for a limited period
d : a type or class of objects usually developed from an earlier type
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generation

Well, you won't be astonished to learn that I don't credit a word of that,...

Why are you telling me that? The people to get in touch with would be the publishers of merriam-webster's.





JW

[JehovahsWitness]

What, exactly, is your definition of "generation" as you quoted above relative to 1914?

I think someone has an objection to my answering your questions.

And it's off -topic anyway.

Perhaps DrNoGods it's best you desist from asking me off topic questions.

JW

[TRANSPONDER]

What, exactly, is your definition of "generation" ....?

Definition of GENERATION
1 a : a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor
b : a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously the younger generation
c : a group of individuals having contemporaneously* a status (such as that of students in a school) which each one holds only for a limited period
d : a type or class of objects usually developed from an earlier type
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generation

Well, you won't be astonished to learn that I don't credit a word of that,...

Why are you telling me that? The people to get in touch with would be the publishers of merriam-webster's.





JW

No it isn't. I have no quarrel with their various usages - only with your selection of a general term to extend Jesus' very specific reference to those standing with him, some of whom would still be alive when he came again (which you are at pains to ignore) to the present day, more or less.

But I have to thank you for your excellent displays of the misdirection and evasion that is part and parcel of Christian apologetics. We all need to become familiar with it.

[JehovahsWitness]

I have no quarrel with their various usages - only with your selection of a general term to extend Jesus' very specific reference to those standing with him , some of whom would still be alive when he came again (which you are at pains to ignore) to the present day, more or less.

I don't recall doing anything of the kind.

And it's off -topic anyway.

JW

[TRANSPONDER]

What, exactly, is your definition of "generation" as you quoted above relative to 1914?

I think someone has an objection to my answering your questions.

And it's off -topic anyway.

Perhaps DrNoGods it's best you desist from asking me off topic questions.

JW

Well, it was more a caution. It does have a relevance to generally believing the Bible and therefore the god of the Bible, but discussing the particular interpretation of a prophecy is getting towards a derail. Just sayin'.

It's Matthew 24 34 and it does look as though he's talking to those there with him and saying that they will see it. 'This generation' means those alive at the time.

So you can preach early 20th c (which is gone, you know) and try to vaguely extend it to a doizen or so years in the future so by the time it doesn't happen the prediction can have been changed... but do you really think the latest end of world prediction from a group with a uneviable record of failed predictions is going to persuade anyone?

It's interesting to compare Matthew's talk on the mount of Olives (predicting Jesus' 2nd coming and the Last Days) with the others. Mark matches Matthew pretty well but you can see he is talking to those with him and telling them to keep a sharp look -out. It suits the present day Believer in prophecy to pretend that he was fooling them. It wasn't for them - it was for those who would cone near 2 thousand years later. Believe it if you like.

Luke, being Luke changes it a bit. Knowing his Josephus and living after the Jewish war, he knows that Jerusalem ringed by (Roman) armies in the prediction coming to pass. The individual must decide whether he is talking history or talking about a future time - as future as it needs to be to keep the prophecy going. But he does say that, though 'they' (some others) seeing him come on the clouds with power (and you'll recall that Jesus told the Sanhedrin that they would see this) he speaks to those with him. They will know their redemption is near. It was 'his generation' - those who were alive at the time.- he was talking to

What does John say about this? Well we needn't be astonished. Between the Donkey ride (with the Temple fracas, though John removes that) and the Last supper (after the talk on the Mount of Olives), there is nothing matching that prophecy. not a sossidge. Can you wonder that I don't take it seriously, nor the Gospels, the prediction,the religion, nor you?

by JehovahsWitness » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:32 pm

TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:56 pm
I have no quarrel with their various usages - only with your selection of a general term to extend Jesus' very specific reference to those standing with him , some of whom would still be alive when he came again (which you are at pains to ignore) to the present day, more or less.

I don't recall doing anything of the kind.

Ad - hoc/Cherry picking? Ring a bell? Jog a memory?

[JehovahsWitness]

What, exactly, is your definition of "generation" as you quoted above relative to 1914?

I think someone has an objection to my answering your questions.

And it's off -topic anyway.

Perhaps DrNoGods it's best you desist from asking me off topic questions.

JW

Well, it was more a caution. ... discussing the particular interpretation of a prophecy is getting towards a derail.

Yes, for that reason I will not respond to any of your points because discussing the particular interpretation of a prophecy is getting towards a derail.



Have an excellent day,


JW

[TRANSPONDER]

P.s Ah no..I misread you.
by JehovahsWitness » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:32 pm

TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:56 pm
I have no quarrel with their various usages - only with your selection of a general term to extend Jesus' very specific reference to those standing with him , some of whom would still be alive when he came again (which you are at pains to ignore) to the present day, more or less.

I don't recall doing anything of the kind.

You mean of course denying cherry -picking a particular definition in Websters (or you blue- lighted it at least.)

To me that selecting one particular meaning that suited your interpretation of a 'generation' in Matthew. Though as I recall, the definitions were so broad that they didn't seem to specifically apply either to a group of people living around the same time who wouldn't be around in 100 years or to humanity as a species. Other dictionaries might be more specific. But that doesn't matter· Reading the Gospel - entry, it definitely reads (to me) like he is talking to those with him and he is saying what he (or the writer) expects to happen in their lifetime. And I simply do not believe your tinkering about with figures to persuade that it relates to 1914 or the present.

Just sayin'. You can carry on pedding your prophecy, and welcome. But putting you in the wise that you are unlikely to sell it to me, at least.

[TRANSPONDER]

What, exactly, is your definition of "generation" as you quoted above relative to 1914?

I think someone has an objection to my answering your questions.

And it's off -topic anyway.

Perhaps DrNoGods it's best you desist from asking me off topic questions.

JW

Well, it was more a caution. ... discussing the particular interpretation of a prophecy is getting towards a derail.

Yes, for that reason I will not respond to any of your points because discussing the particular interpretation of a prophecy is getting towards a derail.



Have an excellent day,


JW

It's not been bad, thanks for asking. And you are at liberty and welcome to respond to my posts or not. That does not mean I won't post in response to yours.
Have a wonderful week.