Good reason

[nobspeople]

In a different thread (listed below), when discussing, in part, if the bible is true, TRANSPONDER said " It is a well known argument that asserting what is in the Bible is true because it is in the Bible is a fallacy. A Lawyer would know that a witness statement is not going to be accepted as true just because he or she has said it. Nor of course rejected without good reason."

The above bolded section caused me to think (not claiming this is TRANSPNDER's assertion): is there good reason to think the bible isn't true?

For discussion: Is there good reason (define what is 'good reason' to you) to think the bible is or is not true*?

*TRUE here being used as 'legitimate, real word of God which was written by men, inspired by God' - this would assume everything written in it is true and agreed upon by God - in other words, nothing written is personal opinion of the writer.



Reference viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38540&start=10

[1213]

...
For discussion: Is there good reason (define what is 'good reason' to you) to think the bible is or is not true*?...

For me good reasons to believe are:
1. The teachings are good. They have been really useful for me. Like "love you neighbor as yourself".

2. Things go as told in the Bible. For example it was said long ago that Jews will be scattered and that they later will be gathered back.

I will scatter you among the nations, and I will draw out the sword after you: and your land will be a desolation, and your cities shall be a waste.
Leviticus 26:33

It shall happen, when all these things are come on you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you shall call them to mind among all the nations, where Yahweh your God has driven you, and shall return to Yahweh your God, and shall obey his voice according to all that I command you this day, you and your children, with all your heart, and with all your soul; that then Yahweh your God will turn your captivity, and have compassion on you, and will return and gather you from all the peoples, where Yahweh your God has scattered you. If any of your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of the heavens, from there will Yahweh your God gather you, and from there will he bring you back:
Deuteronomy 30:1-4

3. Bible has knowledge that I don't think humans would have had without God. For example single original continent at the beginning.

God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10
before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world. When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
Proverbs 8:26-27
To him that stretched out the earth above the waters:"
Psalms 136:6

[Miles]

The above bolded section caused me to think (not claiming this is TRANSPNDER's assertion): is there good reason to think the bible isn't true?

For discussion: Is there good reason (define what is 'good reason' to you) to think the bible is or is not true*?

Until Grimm's Fairy Tales, or any other book, can produce convincing evidence that what it says is true, (that fairies and trolls live in the woods, in the case of Grimm's) there's no good reason to think it is true (that fairies and trolls live in the woods). And so far neither Grimm's Fairy Tales nor anything else has yet to produce such evidence.

Likewise:

Until the Bible, or any other book, can produce convincing evidence that what it says is true, (the "real word of GOD," in the case of the Bible) there's no good reason to think it is true (the "real word of GOD"). And so far neither the Bible nor anything else has yet to produce such evidence.

.

[nobspeople]

The above bolded section caused me to think (not claiming this is TRANSPNDER's assertion): is there good reason to think the bible isn't true?

For discussion: Is there good reason (define what is 'good reason' to you) to think the bible is or is not true*?

Until Grimm's Fairy Tales, or any other book, can produce convincing evidence that what it says is true, (that fairies and trolls live in the woods, in the case of Grimm's) there's no good reason to think it is true (that fairies and trolls live in the woods). And so far neither Grimm's Fairy Tales nor anything else has yet to produce such evidence.

Likewise:

Until the Bible, or any other book, can produce convincing evidence that what it says is true, (the "real word of GOD," in the case of the Bible) there's no good reason to think it is true (the "real word of GOD"). And so far neither the Bible nor anything else has yet to produce such evidence.

.

While I can't disagree in theory, and you and I may not find good reason to believe it's real and true, others seem to be able to make that leap. Some of the 'good reasons' I've seen thus far aren't any better than many other religious texts that exist - and sometimes worse.

[POI]

For me good reasons to believe are:
1. The teachings are good. They have been really useful for me. Like "love you neighbor as yourself".

I apologize for the "gish gallop", ahead of time, but I have to ask:

Giving instructions for lifetime slavery, telling homosexuals that it is an abomination, instructing that women are to submit to men, instructing one group to commit infanticide against another group, offering the option for the rapist to marry their victim, telling one group to only spare virgins in war, etc., are 'good teachings' as well?

2. Things go as told in the Bible. For example it was said long ago that Jews will be scattered and that they later will be gathered back.

I doubt ambiguous statements lend to anything credible. Otherwise, we might also need to consider Nostradamus.

And what do you do when God clearly gets it completely wrong? You know, like when I mentioned the expressed prophecy about the city of Tyre? As we left off in the other thread, it is one of the oldest continuous existing cities, from ~2700 BCE.

3. Bible has knowledge that I don't think humans would have had without God. For example single original continent at the beginning.

God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10
before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world. When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
Proverbs 8:26-27
To him that stretched out the earth above the waters:"
Psalms 136:6

I doubt ambiguous statements lend to anything credible, unless by chance. Otherwise, we might also need to consider Nostradamus' predictions/assertions as precise.

Here's a follow up question I'm sure you've heard... Why did Jesus not teach people to wash their hands, to avoid getting sick or spreading disease/infection?

[1213]

…Giving instructions for lifetime slavery, telling homosexuals that it is an abomination, instructing that women are to submit to men, instructing one group to commit infanticide against another group, offering the option for the rapist to marry their victim, telling one group to only spare virgins in war, etc., are 'good teachings' as well?

I think all Bible teachings are good, if used correctly.

And what do you do when God clearly gets it completely wrong? You know, like when I mentioned the expressed prophecy about the city of Tyre? As we left off in the other thread, it is one of the oldest continuous existing cities, from ~2700 BCE.

As it can be seen from the images, it is still in ruins. If people build a new city next to it and call it Tyre, it is not the same.

... Why did Jesus not teach people to wash their hands, to avoid getting sick or spreading disease/infection?

Maybe because there were more important things to teach.

[POI]

…Giving instructions for lifetime slavery, telling homosexuals that it is an abomination, instructing that women are to submit to men, instructing one group to commit infanticide against another group, offering the option for the rapist to marry their victim, telling one group to only spare virgins in war, etc., are 'good teachings' as well?

I think all Bible teachings are good, if used correctly.

How would instructing lifetime slavery, telling homosexuals they are committing an abomination, telling women they are to completely submit to the man, telling group A to kill all of group B's babies, offering only two options for raped virgins (money to daddy <or> marry the rape victim), telling one war tribe to only spare the female virgins, ever used for 'good'?

Is it because God says so? Or is there other reason(s)?

And what do you do when God clearly gets it completely wrong? You know, like when I mentioned the expressed prophecy about the city of Tyre? As we left off in the other thread, it is one of the oldest continuous existing cities, from ~2700 BCE.

As it can be seen from the images, it is still in ruins. If people build a new city next to it and call it Tyre, it is not the same.

I already addressed your response, Do you not remember? Many existing cities have ruins within them, as they still continue to exist. Cities expand all the time. This does not mean it's a new city. Expansion happens all the time. The fact the old stuff was preserved, for whatever reason(s), does not mean the city is gone. The Bible states "You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord."

Welp, God was clearly mistaken here. The city of Tyre has been acknowledged as the same place for over 4500 years, You must now reconcile that the Bible gets things wrong.

... Why did Jesus not teach people to wash their hands, to avoid getting sick or spreading disease/infection?

Maybe because there were more important things to teach.

Washing your hands, to avoid spreading disease/infection, to save many future lives, is not important enough to instruct?

Again, your claim is the Bible taught stuff humans could not have come up with on their own. I've read the Bible, and I really do not see much of anything presented, for which could not have already been known by humans, at the time it was written?

[brunumb]

Washing your hands, to avoid spreading disease/infection, to save many future lives, is not important enough to instruct?

It's not like it would take up all your time and prevent you from delivering the rest of your message. And there really is no need to wrap it all up in a lengthy, confusing parable. "Hey folks! If you want to avoid getting sick, wash your hands".

[POI]

Washing your hands, to avoid spreading disease/infection, to save many future lives, is not important enough to instruct?

It's not like it would take up all your time and prevent you from delivering the rest of your message. And there really is no need to wrap it all up in a lengthy, confusing parable. "Hey folks! If you want to avoid getting sick, wash your hands".

LOL. Yea, we are better off not knowing this, until we discovered this ourselves, much later And yes, it must be more necessary to lay out parables, ad nauseam.

[JoeyKnothead]

Washing your hands, to avoid spreading disease/infection, to save many future lives, is not important enough to instruct?

It's not like it would take up all your time and prevent you from delivering the rest of your message. And there really is no need to wrap it all up in a lengthy, confusing parable. "Hey folks! If you want to avoid getting sick, wash your hands".

We've got folks taking horse medicine to treat covid.

Sometimes it takes more'n "do this obvious thing" to get folks to do stuff.