Judaism, Christianity and Islam dismissed with one meme

[Willum]

Journal of Noah, day 12:

We’ve begun eating the dinosaurs to allay our hunger.

With my stomach thus calmed, I revisit the murder of Sephat and his family. I feel bad about killing Sephat, he worked forever building this boat, and was a good friend.
But what Satan commands, I must do.
Now lord Satan has asked me to write the story about how the world came to be and up to now…
I don’t know, I’m just going to make it up.

Topic for debate – God was defeated by Satan everywhere else, is there any way to show this isn’t also true? (According to the religion, that is...)
That Noah was one of the evil hosts that, like Satan in the Garden, or Satan wit Job, he simply instructed one of his people (Noah) to take the place of God's good family.

After all evil survived the flood...

Doesn't the concept that the person surviving the flood being evil and corruptible demonstrate the entire Abrahamic religion is false?

[Purple Knight]

He could choose to...

(a) allow it (sin) ie leave sinful individiauals to do as they please

(b) tolerate it temporarily to a certain extent intervening according to his pleasure or purpose
and/or ...

(c) eradicate anyone who starts or persists in sinful choices (resulting in a world free from any individuals whose bad choices would impact on others).

There's a fourth option if God is really omnipotent. It deals with those of us who don't want our free will. For anyone who says, I don't want it, make me a moral robot, God could answer that prayer. I don't see that it would get anyone into Heaven/Paradise or what have you, because they'd be giving up instead of playing the game, and in addition the sins already committed would remain unpaid for, but for some people it would be worth it anyway.

In short, I do not believe it is inevitable that we live in a world dominated by sinful individuals, indeed I believe the bible's* basic message is one day soon we will not.

I think the story of the flood is testament to either the fact that God well knows that when you have a mix, evil will dominate good, or it stands as testament to the fact that the people who wrote the story well know that.

I'm of the opinion that it's all mythical, but I also understand that there is a lot of truth hidden in many myths. The story of the garden has it at least partially right when it casts evil as a contagion, because evil is a contagion. The idea that one person can choose sin and cause everyone else to be contaminated is true in a definite sense. What do you do when one child starts hitting? You can either aggress against him in return, punishing him until he stops, thus tainting yourself with violence if he's smart and nothing else will work, or you can let him alone and let everyone else realise that hitting others brings benefits. Either way, once one person starts up, it spreads. The most peaceful societies have governments and rules and practice punishments, establishing a sort of mutualism with evil, using it only as a defence against worse evil, but those very systems are catastrophically vulnerable to anyone who points at anything and shouts evil.

[brunumb]

Evil is basically same as emptiness or darkness, it is really nothing, it is the lack of good. Can emptiness be destroyed?

Is that out of "The Giant Omnibus of Christian Loopholes"?

e·vil

adjective: evil
profoundly immoral and wicked.
"his evil deeds"

noun: evil
profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
"the world is stalked by relentless evil"

[Purple Knight]

Evil is basically same as emptiness or darkness, it is really nothing, it is the lack of good. Can emptiness be destroyed?

Is that out of "The Giant Omnibus of Christian Loopholes"?

No; I think that's out of The Neverending Story. Emptiness cannot be destroyed; it must be filled.

Sorry 1213 for poking a little fun. I do disagree though. I don't think a rock or a tree is evil. I think evil has to be wilful.

[Willum]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #44]

As we have seen, the Abrahamic religions are dismissed by bad jokes.
We have seen their most devoted adherents completely discombobulated and scrambling over there own arguments, unable to make their religion more reasonable than that joke.

Most will not answer the obvious question, desperately trying to redefine the scope of the topic by asking ingenuous questions, hoping, just hoping, reiteration of the question will lead to answer that can be further twisted.

A very poor showing, and with adherents not only adhering to the religion dispelled with a bad joke, but unwilling to open their eyes to the new perspective, or even admit they can see it…

If Satan existed, he’d love these guys… they’d be going to hell for the sin of lying, and be unable to confess it for the sin of pride.

Even I have to have a wicked smile.

[Willum]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #51]

Do you realize it is no sin to do God’s will, and the only possible application of freewill s to sin.

It makes the entire argument about freewill a paradox.
We don’t have freewill if we do God’s will, we can only sin if we have freewill. Eventually, and possibly not even meaning to.

[Tcg]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #31]

So you are saying God is helpless in the face of Satan's efforts.

Now all you have to do is explain how this hypothetical relates to topic at hand.

It relates directly to the question asked. If Willum's question is irrelevant speak to Willium.

Here is the hypothetical under consideration:

if an omnipotent God exists, then by definition (ie this opinion is based on a logical conclusion from the dictionary meaning of the word) there can be nothing He is "helpless" before.

JW

You are the author of this hypothetical which of course explains why I asked you about it.

You've made this additional claim, "It relates directly to the question asked." What you have failed to do is explain how it relates to the question asked.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #44]

As we have seen, the Abrahamic religions are dismissed by bad jokes.
We have seen their most devoted adherents completely discombobulated and scrambling over there own arguments, unable to make their religion more reasonable than that joke.

Most will not answer the obvious question, desperately trying to redefine the scope of the topic by asking ingenuous questions, hoping, just hoping, reiteration of the question will lead to answer that can be further twisted.

A very poor showing, and with adherents not only adhering to the religion dispelled with a bad joke, but unwilling to open their eyes to the new perspective, or even admit they can see it…

If Satan existed, he’d love these guys… they’d be going to hell for the sin of lying, and be unable to confess it for the sin of pride.

Even I have to have a wicked smile.

Entertaining. But I see nothing that looks like an argument or apologetic here.

[JehovahsWitness]

Now all you have to do is explain how this hypothetical relates to topic at hand.

Fair enough.

Topic for debate – God was defeated by Satan everywhere else, is there any way to show this isn’t also true?

The question in the OP proposes that GOD ( presuming he exists God exists) was {quote } "defeated by Satan". My point relates to the OP because it relates to the nature of the God under discussion presuming that is a reference to the "God" as presented in the bible canon.

if an omnipotent God exists, then by definition (ie this opinion is based on a logical conclusion from the dictionary meaning of the word) there can be nothing He is "helpless" before.

JW

NOTE : I am not presenting the bible as authorative, (and have no intention to add an argument to that end in this subforum)

[JehovahsWitness]

There's a fourth option if God is really omnipotent. It deals with those of us who don't want our free will.

Yes indeed. All human life are deemed by the God of the bible* as being inseprable from free will (as per the dictionary definition of the word). Biblically then, the solution for any human that does not want life under such a condition is for them to give it back or wait for God to take it.

By dying or being killed the "problem" will be solved.




* NOTE : I am MENTIONING the bible but I am not presenting the bible as authorative, (and have no intention to add an argument to that end in this subforum)See LINK for details:
viewtopic.php?p=1050358#p1050358

JW




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[1213]

Evil is basically same as emptiness or darkness, it is really nothing, it is the lack of good. Can emptiness be destroyed?

Is that out of "The Giant Omnibus of Christian Loopholes"?
...

No, it is just logically so. Evil means person doesn't do good, therefore it can be seen as lack of good, emptiness or darkness.