JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:01 pmWho said you can choose to have free will or not? Biblically, you have as much freedom to choose
not to have free will as you have to choose to be an antelope. Free will (as in the ability to make choices) is not to be confused with the ability to choose anything.
Well, I have to be able to choose anything evil. Start taking away my ability to rape or murder and we know at least that if
all evils are taken off the board, that's not the sort of free will God wants human beings to have. The whole point is that we can do bad things. The question is, does everyone need to have the ability to do just one singular bad thing? Or do all the sins have to be on the board?
Now, if all we need is just the ability to commit one sin, then everyone has the ability to commit blasphemy and done. We no longer need the ability to rape or murder. God's test that we can sin and don't would be satisfied if we couldn't hurt each other at all, so we wouldn't need that ability. Since we do possess those abilities we can deduce that just having the ability to commit one sin isn't enough.
If we're taking the Christian canon as true, it doesn't seem like a coincidence to me that aside from the crippled, the things we can't do, don't have a lot to do with evil. We can't fly, levitate automobiles, or throw buildings over the moon, but none of those things are inherently evil; they could be either good or evil depending on the situation. We could use telekinesis to hurt people, but thanks to being able to hurt people without it, we don't need telekinesis.
If the choice to give up all choices is a unique sin, it could be a necessary one.
Willum wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:55 am
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Replying to Purple Knight in post #51]
He spoke about free will, the problem with free will is: the only practical application of free will is to sin.
If we didn’t have free will, we couldn’t sin.
Since we did have free will, even in the case of Adam and eve, we did sin.
The fairytale remains dismissed.
It's not dismissed, it's just a question of God being one of those people who says they value personal choice (and perhaps does) but in reality there is one right answer so the true value of choice to that person is questionable.
Seeing as how most people I know do this, I think the fairytale has a lot of elements that mesh with reality, since humans being created in God's image is one of the plot points.
People will pretend they value individuality and choice, and perhaps they do, but in reality they have one right answer in mind and you're worthless if you don't come to it. I have a family member whose catchphrase is that all opinions are valid, but who simultaneously thinks it's basically a demonic act to vote Republican. I think you can't have it both ways, but perhaps I'm wrong.
