Purpose of angels: slaves?

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Purpose of angels: slaves?

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

The bible seems to indicate there are a few things angels do for god:
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/ ... oing-today

Why couldn't god do these things, one wonders? Anyway...
If god created all that is everywhere (even, it seems, thing we don't that exists - thank you blind faith), surely god could have done these things itself. But god uses, at least some times, angels.

Do the angels do this willingly? Seems about 1/3 had issues with it, among other things. So god casts them out, the bible says. Seems a bit harsh, but OK - god can be a jerk when it's upset.

So it seems at least some of the angels have free will (or god created the ones casts out to be destined to be casts out, which is another topic altogether). So are the angels staying with god - doing god's will - doing so out of choice or fear?

If it's due to fear, wouldn't that make them slaves, in a sense?

If it's not out of fear (their willing choice) does this mean they agree with god and what god's doing?

Or where the 2/3 created to not have a choice?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: Purpose of angels: slaves?

Post #21

Post by JehovahsWitness »

bluegreenearth wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:18 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:12 pm The only claim I am making it as follows (words in blue) : I claim to believe certain things in the bible . Would you like to hear what I believe on the question you asked: "yes" or "no"?
Yes, as long as you aren't making any claims beyond claiming you believe certain things in the bible.
Diagoras wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:23 am
Could you clarify, please? Are you claiming all angels were created with free will, or only some types?

I believe that ALL angels were created with free will. A just God would not program or dictate someone to do something and then punish them for doing it. If angelic rebellion is punished by God, that indicates to me that they alone are responsible for their choices.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: Purpose of angels: slaves?

Post #22

Post by Willum »

You need to understand the evolutionary nature of the Abrahamic religions.

They started out by having many gods. Then, the jealous nature of the Judean culture insisted that their god be more powerful than other gods, so other gods were demoted to demons and angels.

Then hearing that Roman gods were all powerful, Yahweh needed an omnipotence upgrade to Yahweh 3.0.

Angels just stuck around, because they were in the book.

User avatar
Diagoras
Guru
Posts: 1392
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:47 am
Has thanked: 170 times
Been thanked: 579 times

Re: Purpose of angels: slaves?

Post #23

Post by Diagoras »

Willum wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:49 pm You need to understand the evolutionary nature of the Abrahamic religions.

They started out by having many gods. Then, the jealous nature of the Judean culture insisted that their god be more powerful than other gods, so other gods were demoted to demons and angels.

Then hearing that Roman gods were all powerful, Yahweh needed an omnipotence upgrade to Yahweh 3.0.

Angels just stuck around, because they were in the book.
I found this article (on a Christian site) to be interesting. In particular, the claims:
Yahweh himself, who created and rules the other gods, would rule Israel directly. He would rule the nations indirectly through the delegated authority of other gods. This, apparently, was the original intent behind the strange passage regarding the “prince of Persia” in Daniel 10: “The prince of Persia withstood me [perhaps the angel Gabriel] twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me” (v. 13).
<bolding mine>

This seems to support a 'demotion' idea, and in fact the article states explicitly:
...the gods—which are sometimes regarded in the Hebrew Bible as fallen angels...

Post Reply