The bible seems to indicate there are a few things angels do for god:
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/ ... oing-today
Why couldn't god do these things, one wonders? Anyway...
If god created all that is everywhere (even, it seems, thing we don't that exists - thank you blind faith), surely god could have done these things itself. But god uses, at least some times, angels.
Do the angels do this willingly? Seems about 1/3 had issues with it, among other things. So god casts them out, the bible says. Seems a bit harsh, but OK - god can be a jerk when it's upset.
So it seems at least some of the angels have free will (or god created the ones casts out to be destined to be casts out, which is another topic altogether). So are the angels staying with god - doing god's will - doing so out of choice or fear?
If it's due to fear, wouldn't that make them slaves, in a sense?
If it's not out of fear (their willing choice) does this mean they agree with god and what god's doing?
Or where the 2/3 created to not have a choice?
Purpose of angels: slaves?
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Prodigy
- Posts: 3187
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
- Has thanked: 1510 times
- Been thanked: 824 times
- JehovahsWitness
- Savant
- Posts: 21144
- Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
- Has thanked: 794 times
- Been thanked: 1129 times
- Contact:
Re: Purpose of angels: slaves?
Post #21bluegreenearth wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:18 pmYes, as long as you aren't making any claims beyond claiming you believe certain things in the bible.JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:12 pm The only claim I am making it as follows (words in blue) : I claim to believe certain things in the bible . Would you like to hear what I believe on the question you asked: "yes" or "no"?
I believe that ALL angels were created with free will. A just God would not program or dictate someone to do something and then punish them for doing it. If angelic rebellion is punished by God, that indicates to me that they alone are responsible for their choices.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
- Willum
- Savant
- Posts: 9017
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
- Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
- Has thanked: 35 times
- Been thanked: 82 times
Re: Purpose of angels: slaves?
Post #22You need to understand the evolutionary nature of the Abrahamic religions.
They started out by having many gods. Then, the jealous nature of the Judean culture insisted that their god be more powerful than other gods, so other gods were demoted to demons and angels.
Then hearing that Roman gods were all powerful, Yahweh needed an omnipotence upgrade to Yahweh 3.0.
Angels just stuck around, because they were in the book.
They started out by having many gods. Then, the jealous nature of the Judean culture insisted that their god be more powerful than other gods, so other gods were demoted to demons and angels.
Then hearing that Roman gods were all powerful, Yahweh needed an omnipotence upgrade to Yahweh 3.0.
Angels just stuck around, because they were in the book.
- Diagoras
- Guru
- Posts: 1392
- Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:47 am
- Has thanked: 170 times
- Been thanked: 579 times
Re: Purpose of angels: slaves?
Post #23I found this article (on a Christian site) to be interesting. In particular, the claims:Willum wrote: ↑Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:49 pm You need to understand the evolutionary nature of the Abrahamic religions.
They started out by having many gods. Then, the jealous nature of the Judean culture insisted that their god be more powerful than other gods, so other gods were demoted to demons and angels.
Then hearing that Roman gods were all powerful, Yahweh needed an omnipotence upgrade to Yahweh 3.0.
Angels just stuck around, because they were in the book.
<bolding mine>Yahweh himself, who created and rules the other gods, would rule Israel directly. He would rule the nations indirectly through the delegated authority of other gods. This, apparently, was the original intent behind the strange passage regarding the “prince of Persia” in Daniel 10: “The prince of Persia withstood me [perhaps the angel Gabriel] twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me” (v. 13).
This seems to support a 'demotion' idea, and in fact the article states explicitly:
...the gods—which are sometimes regarded in the Hebrew Bible as fallen angels...