Purpose of angels: slaves?

[nobspeople]

The bible seems to indicate there are a few things angels do for god:
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/ ... oing-today

Why couldn't god do these things, one wonders? Anyway...
If god created all that is everywhere (even, it seems, thing we don't that exists - thank you blind faith), surely god could have done these things itself. But god uses, at least some times, angels.

Do the angels do this willingly? Seems about 1/3 had issues with it, among other things. So god casts them out, the bible says. Seems a bit harsh, but OK - god can be a jerk when it's upset.

So it seems at least some of the angels have free will (or god created the ones casts out to be destined to be casts out, which is another topic altogether). So are the angels staying with god - doing god's will - doing so out of choice or fear?

If it's due to fear, wouldn't that make them slaves, in a sense?

If it's not out of fear (their willing choice) does this mean they agree with god and what god's doing?

Or where the 2/3 created to not have a choice?

[Miles]

.
Interestingly, for some obscure reason god created a hierarchy of nine types of spiritual beings.

Highest orders
Seraphim
Cherubim
Thrones

Middle orders
Dominions
Virtues
Powers

Lowest orders
Principalities
Archangels
Angels
source: Wikipedia

Other than angels, which Judaism further divides into 10 varying ranks, who sit at the bottom of this spiritual being hierarchy I have no idea what the functions of the other eight are. Nor, as you point out, why god would need angels to do his bidding. I too would think he could do everything without them. As with the only reasonable reason for creating the universe---boredom---I suspect he created all spiritual beings to keep him company. Apparently god finds it difficult to live alone and without entertainment.


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[1213]

....Seems about 1/3 had issues with it, among other things. So god casts them out, the bible says. ...
So it seems at least some of the angels have free will (or god created the ones casts out to be destined to be casts out, which is another topic altogether). So are the angels staying with god - doing god's will - doing so out of choice or fear?
...
If it's not out of fear (their willing choice) does this mean they agree with god and what god's doing?

Or where the 2/3 created to not have a choice?

I don't know much about them. But, as you said, if they can rebel, then they seem to have free will and those who remain loyal to God, do it because they think it is good.

I have some times thought, maybe they are like robots/androids, at least some of them. Perhaps that is not correct, but what do you think, if they are robots, is it wrong to destroy them, if someone corrupts them?

[Diagoras]

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

From your Wikipedia link:

messenger angels are a highly important part of preserving and strengthening the link, as well as necessary distance, of God to humans.

This suggests to me the prime reason why God would have so many angels 'on his staff', as it were. The article points out that the four archangels were associated with different tribes, so it seems that God has, in effect, a global communication department in this mythos.

Of course, the six-winged beings known as seraphim have the task of flying around the Throne of God crying "holy, holy, holy". The only comparable job I can think of is something like a compere or M.C: there to announce the presence of the big boss, and to provide some suitably flattering statement about him. I'm not sure whether it's a 24/7 job (does heaven even have 'days'?), but would think that it could become a bit annoying over time. Perhaps God just tunes them out? Whether the seraphim are allowed or expected to do anything else can't be reliably determined, but in my opinion, 1213 might be not far off the mark with that 'automaton' idea. Nothing with free will seems likely to be content to flap around with an extreme case of echolalia for eternity, in my opinion.

[Miles]

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

From your Wikipedia link:

messenger angels are a highly important part of preserving and strengthening the link, as well as necessary distance, of God to humans.

This suggests to me the prime reason why God would have so many angels 'on his staff', as it were. The article points out that the four archangels were associated with different tribes, so it seems that God has, in effect, a global communication department in this mythos.

So some Jewish or Christian apologist has surmised. Without scriptural support it doesn't mean any more than do extra-Hobbit claims about Bilbo Baggins by some ardent Tolkien fan.

[JehovahsWitness]

The bible seems to indicate there are a few things angels do for god:
... are the angels staying with god - doing god's will - doing so out of choice or fear? If it's not out of fear (their willing choice) does this mean they agree with god and what god's doing?

There is nothing in the bible* to indicate God only endowed SOME angels with free will; if (as it seems reasonable to conclude) all angels can choose to stay loyal to God or not, it seems logical those that stay do so because they agree with God and what God's doing. If they did not agree they would one can assume join the rebel forces and leave.

Since the God presented in the bible can read hearts (and rewards or punishes accordingly) there would be no point in serving God grudgingly or out of a sense of compulsion.

To learn more please go to other posts related to ....

ANGELS , DEMONS and ...THE HEAVENLY CALLING

* NOTE : I am MENTIONING the bible but I am not presenting the bible as authorative, (and have no intention to add an argument to that end in this subforum)See LINK for details:
viewtopic.php?p=1050358#p1050358

[nobspeople]

[Replying to 1213 in post #3]

I have some times thought, maybe they are like robots/androids, at least some of them. Perhaps that is not correct, but what do you think, if they are robots, is it wrong to destroy them, if someone corrupts them?

If so, then they are slaves with (seemingly) little use other than 'to do things'.
But if so, this would mean god created a portion of them to rebel. Or, god's programming wasn't as good on those as the other 2/3.

[Diagoras]

There is nothing in the bible* to indicate God only endowed SOME angels with free will; if (as it seems reasonable to conclude) all angels can choose to stay loyal to God or not, it seems logical those that stay do so because they agree with God and what God's doing. If they did not agree they would one can assume join the rebel forces and leave.

Since the God presented in the bible can read hearts (and rewards or punishes accordingly) there would be no point in serving God grudgingly or out of a sense of compulsion.

Could you clarify, please? Are you claiming all angels were created with free will, or only some types?

[bluegreenearth]

I don't know much about them. But, as you said, if they can rebel, then they seem to have free will and those who remain loyal to God, do it because they think it is good.

If angels have freewill and some of them freely rebel against God while others remain loyal, then doesn't this undermine the apologetic response to the problem of divine hiddenness?

[1213]

I don't know much about them. But, as you said, if they can rebel, then they seem to have free will and those who remain loyal to God, do it because they think it is good.

If angels have freewill and some of them freely rebel against God while others remain loyal, then doesn't this undermine the apologetic response to the problem of divine hiddenness?

Sorry, I am not sure what you mean, please explain.