CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

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Avoice
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CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #1

Post by Avoice »

Christians:
Are you under the law or not?

1) I hear Christians say they are not under the law. That it is done away with. Is that true?

The sacrificial system is in the book of the laws.
What makes you think you have protection under the law? Laws which you deny? YOU HAVE NO PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. You cant offer Jesus or anything as a sacrifice.

2) Did you read about what God demands for a sacrifice to be accepted?

Any if Jesus' blood sprinkled on the alter? NO
You think a sacrifice in a disgusting place like Golgotha is fitting for God? You wouldnt let your dog sleep in such a place. But for an offering to God you are cool with it. Yes? Thats okay?

DOES THE LAW STAND OR DOESN'T IT?

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Re: CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #11

Post by brunumb »

1213 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:14 pm
benchwarmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:29 pm ...You recognize the law is given by God, but somehow don't see it as actual law that you must follow....
My point is not to say people must not follow the law. What I try to say is that I understand that “being under the law” means that person obeys the law because he must do so, not because he wants to do so. And I have understood Christian doesn’t obey it because he has to, but because he wants to obey it. When one does it willingly, not because of force, he is not “under the law”. But, this is just how I understand it. If you don’t like it, you can ignore it.
That makes no sense and sounds a lot like weaseling. The purpose of a law is for you to obey the law whether you want to obey it or not. In either case, willingly or not, you are under the law.
Christianty: 2000 years of making it up as you go along.

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Re: CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #12

Post by Athetotheist »

From Matthew 5:17-19, let's look back at Deuteronomy 6:20-25. In this passage, a man is commanded to teach his son to keep the law when his son is old enough to ask about it.

Suppose there was a man with an infant son in the crowd when Jesus spoke the words in the Matthew passage. Jesus has just told this man to keep the law, and that law commands the man to teach his son to keep it in the future. That means that for the law to be binding on the man while he was listening to Jesus, it would still have to be binding on him when his son grew up----which would be after Jesus died. If the law wasn't binding on him after Jesus died, then the law's command for a future time couldn't have been binding on him while he was listening to Jesus, which would mean that Jesus made a false statement about the law.

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Re: CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #13

Post by Athetotheist »

"They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them."

If this part of Jeremiah's new covenant prophecy was fulfilled with Jesus, why are there still preachers, proselytizers and congregations?

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Re: CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #14

Post by 1213 »

Athetotheist wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:10 pm "They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them."

If this part of Jeremiah's new covenant prophecy was fulfilled with Jesus, why are there still preachers, proselytizers and congregations?
Because not all want to be part of that new covenant.

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Re: CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #15

Post by TRANSPONDER »

The way I have seen this go (and Paul seems to confirm it, in Romans at least) is that the Law was given (ask Paul why, not me) to the Jews and they have to follow it; and considering they no longer sacrifice unblemished animals on an altar they're doing remarkably well.

However, for Christians, the Law does not apply, unless Jesus specifically says so. Thus, you can seethe a lamb in it's mother's milk ,which is great for legitimizing lamb curry in yoghourt, and you are pleasing God by Sunday shopping for Granny rather than going to church.

Oh...and slaves should obey their masters because God appointed them over, so labor unions are an affront to God in either Judaism or Christianity.

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Re: CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #16

Post by Athetotheist »

1213 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:55 am
Athetotheist wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:10 pm "They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them."

If this part of Jeremiah's new covenant prophecy was fulfilled with Jesus, why are there still preachers, proselytizers and congregations?
Because not all want to be part of that new covenant.
Then some, from the least to the greatest, don't have the law written on their hearts?

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Re: CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #17

Post by JoeyKnothead »

I don't near me much fret the Christians being under their own laws, as they try to Talibaninate their laws onto to the rest of us.

These're a bunch of holy do gooders who'll fuss about Clinton getting him his, his, well he got it kissed. Then they ignore the kitty grabber's self avowed transgressions.

Christian law is, best I can tell, a reflection of the hypocrisy of it's "proclaimers".

"Christian law" is as sure a scam as "God needs him for you to send me money, cause in amongst all that magic it is that he can him do, well don't it beat all, it's down to us to fleece you out of every last dollar it is you have."

"Christian law" is the made up doctrine of threatening your freedom and happiness for my own.

"Christian law" is the ultimate desire of em who never even bothered with a rational thought, and wanna make sure you can't either.
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Invention is using things discovered.

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Re: CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #18

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:47 pm
1213 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:55 am
Athetotheist wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:10 pm "They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them."

If this part of Jeremiah's new covenant prophecy was fulfilled with Jesus, why are there still preachers, proselytizers and congregations?
Because not all want to be part of that new covenant.
Then some, from the least to the greatest, don't have the law written on their hearts?
Not in the sense of the rules of the Torah, no. Paul was referring to what we call 'instinctive morality', which in fact is built up by training in the moral customs of the society we live in. Paul did not understand the mix of nature and nurture that gives us a moral compass and he of course ascribed it to Goid

This, he thought was the Real 'law' (1) and a way of being Righteous as much as ever the Jewish Law was. In fact, more because the mass of rules were so easy to break that t was a real burden for the Jews (or at least that's how he saw it, even if the Jews didn't (2) and he saw Gentiles as being free from the Law. He further thought that Faith in Jesus would make one Righteous in thought and deed and one would become Righteous and worthy to be saved.

That's the message that the Greeks Christians picked up and is the basis of the message of the gospels.

(1) see the passage about Abraham being righteous through Godfaith before the Law was given.

(2) the explanation of that puzzling remark by Peter at the council of Jerusalem (Acts) about a burden that the 'fathers' of the Jews were not able to bear.

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Re: CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #19

Post by 1213 »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:47 pm ...Then some, from the least to the greatest, don't have the law written on their hearts?
Yes, at the moment, but, in some sayd there are only those remaining that have the law written in their heart.

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Re: CHRISTIANS: Are you under the law or not?

Post #20

Post by Athetotheist »

1213 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:11 am
Athetotheist wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:47 pm ...Then some, from the least to the greatest, don't have the law written on their hearts?
Yes, at the moment, but, in some sayd there are only those remaining that have the law written in their heart.
"For all will know me...."

If that hasn't happened since Jesus died, his death can't have established a new covenant contingent upon it happening.

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