Tax on churches

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nobspeople
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Tax on churches

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

Simple question: Should churches* be taxed?

In the USA, churches have been officially tax exempt since the late 1800s.
Some say this prevents churches from becoming involved in politics (though that's not true in today's world). Others say, by allowing them to be tax exempt, it allows them to funnel more money into social causes. Additionally, some say donations to churches would lessen if churches lost their tax exempt status (though I find that hard to believe - surely crafty churches would find a work-around to keep that ca$h coming in to pay dem bills!).

Opponents say, basically, churches make too much money (especially mega-churches) to not be taxed - that money would benefit all instead of specific, church affiliated charities. They point out that churches tend to get involved in politics and public organizations such as public schools and, thus, should be taxed.

Some claim there's a potential of billions of dollars that can (and should) be taxed
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... on-a-year/
https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/w ... pay-taxes/

So, should churches remain tax exempt in the USA?
What's the pros and cons of taxing churches?





* Churches, synagogues, mosques, et al.
Last edited by nobspeople on Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Tax on churches

Post #21

Post by Clownboat »

1213 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:22 pm
Miles wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:31 pm ...
Yeah! Let the people decide.
..
Are politicians not people also? I think politicians worse than common people to decide, because they don't think what is the best for the common people, but what is the best for them and their friends.
Are you talking about politics or religion here? It would seem to apply to both.

There is no greater Us vs Them then one religion competing against the next. We have humans willing to give their lives over this Us vs Them that religions cause.

Seems ironic to not trust politicians, but then place utmost faith in those perporting to speak on behalf of the gods.
Seems very silly to me.

I guess if you put enough fear into people, they will believe just about anything.
See politics and religion.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

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Miles
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Re: Tax on churches

Post #22

Post by Miles »

benchwarmer wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:14 pm
Miles wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:24 pm
...an entity that is driven by a dedication to a social cause in the areas of religion...
Thanks Miles, that helps a lot!

The part I have issue with is the quoted bit above. While religion might be a 'social cause' I'm not of the opinion that it is a worthy cause. While many religious organizations do lots of wonderful and good things, many waste money (IMO of course) on things that don't advance the society they live in.

Examples:

- Preaching/teaching anti science rhetoric for example is actually 'anti social' in that it is a detriment to society by attempting to 'dumb down' part of the population on certain issues. Look at all the anti vax, anti mask stuff going on right now.

- Building wildly expensive 'temples' of worship. I don't have an issue with creating a building to come together in, I do have a problem when it's lavishly created/decorated. I realize not all churches do this, but some definitely do.

In a nutshell, remove the 'religion' out of eligible organizations. Clearly not all religious organizations are positive social influences. I see no reason to give them special status because they pull out the religion card. Should a temple of the Flying Spaghetti Monster receive tax exempt status? What if they use a large portion of the money to create elaborate, gold encrusted meatballs as part of their religious services?

I get universities as long as they are using the tax free money to educate students. This creates a better educated society.
I get science as long as the money is used for publicly available/useable research. This creates better technology for society.

I don't get religion or any other groups for sharing 'a view'. Should the 'Beat your children within an inch of their lives of America' society gain tax free status because they are dedicated to a specific shared view of properly behaved children?

Sorry, I guess I'm now going off onto a tangent of what a nonprofit should be....
For the most part I agree. While I do see it sticking its nose into political arenas, such as the abortion law controversy. Supporting the effort to get creationism taught in public school science classes. And outward professions of faith at political gatherings.

"ST. LOUIS — Nearly 400 Missouri pastors gathered at the podium of a hotel ballroom recently to pray over the kneeling figure of Rep. Todd Akin, a Senate candidate whose campaign had been pronounced dead by national Republican leaders weeks before. "
Source: Washington Post

I also see the positive part religion can play in meeting the emotional and supportive needs of parishioners.


.

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Re: Tax on churches

Post #23

Post by Bradskii »

1213 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:21 pm
Bradskii wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:57 pm
1213 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:13 pm
nobspeople wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:44 pm Simple question: Should churches* be taxed?
...
So, should churches remain tax exempt in the USA?
What's the pros and cons of taxing churches?
...
I think no one, or nothing should be taxed, because governments use the money poorly. It would be better that people decide by themselves how they want to use their money.
Well, that's not the most nonsensical argument I've heard all week. Hang on. No, actually it is.
Please explain why do you think so?
Your house is broken into. Who you gonna call? Your garden shed bursts into flames. You'd better hope your neighbours are keen to help put it out. Going to buy a new car? It had better be a 4 wheel drive as the roads are overgrown rubble. Your daughter breaks her leg in a car accident (everyone drinks and drives these days). Can you fix it? The guy next door extends his house and blocks off all the light to yours. Then he has rave parties 24/7 and burns rubbish in his front drive. Who's going to stop him? Mexico decides to take back California. Do you join the militia?

Etcetera etcetera...

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JoeyKnothead
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Re: Tax on churches

Post #24

Post by JoeyKnothead »

There's churches out there, they're poor, and they pull together to help feed the poor. I see no need for taxes in such a situation.

There's also churches rich, who seem to be little more'n the preacher's purse. Tax em accordingly.

Then there's churches with wealth untold, who'd rather declare bankruptcy than to pay their victims a plug nickel. Tax em into oblivion.

Here in Murica, so many churches've been able to make themselves rich, and immune to many of this nation's laws, while they enjoy its freedoms and protections. I think it's time they put something in Uncle Sam's collection plate.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Tax on churches

Post #25

Post by 1213 »

Bradskii wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:11 pm ...
Your house is broken into. Who you gonna call? Your garden shed bursts into flames. You'd better hope your neighbours are keen to help put it out. Going to buy a new car? It had better be a 4 wheel drive as the roads are overgrown rubble. Your daughter breaks her leg in a car accident (everyone drinks and drives these days). Can you fix it? The guy next door extends his house and blocks off all the light to yours. Then he has rave parties 24/7 and burns rubbish in his front drive. Who's going to stop him? Mexico decides to take back California. Do you join the militia?
...
There are other ways to get services that one wants. For example, health insurance for medical issues. Insurances for houses… …it is possible to build roads or other useful systems collectively, without tax system and big government.

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Re: Tax on churches

Post #26

Post by tokutter »

[Replying to historia in post #13]

Exactly how is the Mormon church being the biggest land owner in Florida to the *publics benefit*

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Re: Tax on churches

Post #27

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Edit: my thing changes "but" to "bit"
1213 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:14 pm There are other ways to get services that one wants. For example, health insurance for medical issues. Insurances for houses… …it is possible to build roads or other useful systems collectively, without tax system and big government.
For some, health "insurance" ain't so sure, and's often tied to their employer's willingness to help offset the cost.

For some they can afford the house, but not the insurance on it.

Of course we can imagine a system where roads're built, and tolls're tolled.

We're getting here though, to a time where the average human can't afford health insurance, and food at the same time. They can't afford home insurance, and lectricity at the same time. They can't afford tolls, and tires at the same time.


We've got to figure out a way where the combined wealth of this planet is spread amongst the combined all of us in it.

A billionaire pays a paltry tax, as he spends millions on lobbyists to get even that reduced.

A poor man spends five dollars on a hamburger, and he's called trying to live above his means.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Tax on churches

Post #28

Post by Diogenes »

I would have no problem with churches being tax exempt, IF their primary purpose were to help the poor or otherwise provide charitable resources. Instead, they seem more like social clubs with most of their income going to support the church itself, rather than helping others. The Mormons and the Roman Catholic church have vast business and real estate holdings. Are they at least taxed on those properties?

Another issue is their increasing function as political action forces, rather than as spiritual guides.
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Re: Tax on churches

Post #29

Post by Bradskii »

1213 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:14 pm
Bradskii wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:11 pm ...
Your house is broken into. Who you gonna call? Your garden shed bursts into flames. You'd better hope your neighbours are keen to help put it out. Going to buy a new car? It had better be a 4 wheel drive as the roads are overgrown rubble. Your daughter breaks her leg in a car accident (everyone drinks and drives these days). Can you fix it? The guy next door extends his house and blocks off all the light to yours. Then he has rave parties 24/7 and burns rubbish in his front drive. Who's going to stop him? Mexico decides to take back California. Do you join the militia?
...
There are other ways to get services that one wants. For example, health insurance for medical issues. Insurances for houses… …it is possible to build roads or other useful systems collectively, without tax system and big government.
So you want to organise a system where people pay money into a communal fund which is then spent for the benefit of those who contribute. Sounds like a great idea!

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Re: Tax on churches

Post #30

Post by Bradskii »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:14 pm
We've got to figure out a way where the combined wealth of this planet is spread amongst the combined all of us in it.
Hit the nail on the head, Joey.

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