Peace to you,
otseng wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:35 am
From the
On the Bible being inerrant thread:
nobspeople wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:42 amHow can you trust something that's written about god that contradictory, contains errors and just plain wrong at times? Is there a logical way to do so, or do you just want it to be god's word so much that you overlook these things like happens so often through the history of christianity?
otseng wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:08 am
The Bible can still be God's word, inspired, authoritative, and trustworthy without the need to believe in inerrancy.
For debate:
How can the Bible be considered authoritative and inspired without the need to believe in the doctrine of inerrancy?
While debating, do not simply state verses to say the Bible is inspired or trustworthy.
I do not trust
the bible. I trust
my Lord (Jaheshua, the Holy one and Holy Spirit of God). HE is the authority for Christians (not a book). HE is the Word of God (not a book). I have always taken everything written in the bible with a grain of salt, unless or until my Lord confirms or explains what is written to me. How else could a person know what is true, what is false, what laws were given - NOT because they were true from the beginning, but because the hearts of the people were too hard to hear and follow what was true from the beginning?
**
No one ever taught me (growing up) that the bible was the word of God or inerrant, and my Lord certainly does not teach that. My faith has NEVER been based upon that book. That book is not the Rock upon which to base one's faith. Christ is the Rock upon WHOM to base ones' faith, so that when the winds and the rains come, that house/faith will stand. As I think Otseng pointed out on the other thread, many people whose faith depends upon the bible and it being inerrant, lose their faith when that book is shown to have errors in it. Build your faith on an unstable and erroneous foundation, then all someone has to do is knock out that foundation, and the faith falls with it. Unless one comes to Christ, builds their faith upon Him, upon the TRUTH.
In Christian theology, God has revealed himself to man through general revelation and special revelation. General revelation is primarily the revelation of God through nature. And special revelation is primarily through the Bible. There is no need for either of these to be "perfect" in order to point to God.
You might mean something different by the word 'reveal', but God
doesn't reveal Himself to man through the bible. God reveals Himself to man
through Christ. Even "the bible" records Christ saying that:
No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father.
If you really know me, you will know my Father as well.
I agree with you that something does not need to be perfect in order to
point to God. An imperfect person can
point to God, though I'm not sure how an imperfect person could reveal God (or why a person would trust all that person might say about God). But we don't need to rely upon an imperfect person
or an imperfect book... because we have Christ: the Truth of God, the Word of God, the
PERFECT image and reflection of God.
We have been GIVEN a perfect image and word of God: Christ Jaheshua.
One major barrier I believe is the temptation to idolize the Bible. The Bible is not God. It's not something to be worshiped or idolized. The purpose of the Bible is to lead us to God, it is not God itself.
Certainly the bible is not to be idolized and it is not God.
But where do you get that the purpose of the bible is to lead people to God?
Does it actually do that?
I mean, the scriptures did not lead people to Christ. Only God could do that, right?
"You diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify to me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."
In a sense, I believe we have mythologized the Bible to be beyond what it actually is.
No doubt.
It is not
all inspired, despite what men teach. Inspired meaning given 'in spirit'. Some books are inspired - those given in spirit (the Psalms, the Prophets, Moses, Revelation). The gospels are not inspired though. The gospels are testimonial accounts to Christ (at least one firsthand, the gospel of "John", and some second hand, as Luke states about his account). It is not the Word of God, despite what men teach. Christ is the Word of God. It is not error-free. It even refers to the lying pen of the scribes (Jeremiah 8:8) handling the law falsely, as well as Christ stating 'woe to you scribes.'
**
The bible can give those who
yet walk by sight something to SEE. Something that some/many need, even if just at the start. But remember that we are called to walk
by faith (and faith is based not upon what is seen, but upon what is heard. Not heard from other men, but heard from Christ, from God). Peter was blessed for his faith when he heard and believed God (who revealed to him that Jaheshua was the Christ, the Son of God). Peter did not learn that from men, but from God.
Peace again to you, and to your households,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy