A whale of a tale

[nobspeople]

A lot of talk has been happening here in regards to if the resurrection is factual or not. Among the discussion, is talk of 'witnesses' and the writing (or verbal) passing down of information regarding said resurrection; how what witnesses wrote what they saw (or said that they saw) is proof enough that the resurrection is factual.

A lot more recent (a few centuries ago) is tales of sea creatures and whales. Much was said about these creatures. There was also art depicting what these sea fairing people 'saw'.
Below is one such example


Now, while it's possible there is a creature that looks exactly like this in the depths of the ocean, the [/]likelihood[/i] isn't great. This artwork is what some of themsaid they saw.

For discussion:
If these eyewitnesses of a few centuries ago, can't describe what they saw without bias and the inability to adlib, how can we use the eyewitnesses of the times of jesus (or what those witnesses told others that told others) to represent an accurate description of the resurrection? Or if it even happened at all?

So is the resurrection simply a 'whale of a tale'?

[nobspeople]

You dont believe whales exist?

You don't believe whales are identical to supernatural man-eating fish?

Does it have to be supernatural? There are some big fish out there that could eat a person (or a big enough part of a person) without being supernatural.
Fortunately, I've forgotten the nitty-gritty details about the Jonah story - does it indicate or infer the fish is supernatural?!?

[bluegreenearth]

Does it have to be supernatural? There are some big fish out there that could eat a person (or a big enough part of a person) without being supernatural.
Fortunately, I've forgotten the nitty-gritty details about the Jonah story - does it indicate or infer the fish is supernatural?!?

Supernatural in the sense that the giant fish miraculously appeared on the scene to save Jonah from drowning in accordance with the will of a supernatural God. Furthermore, a fish which is large enough to swallow an entire human being would lack the internal anatomy to keep a person alive for 3 days. Therefore, if Jonah was swallowed by any fish large enough to accomplish that task, he would have drowned nonetheless.

[Athetotheist]

Never mind descriptions of sea life. Embellishments don't have to be separated from their source material by centuries; a mere handful of years will suffice:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/4/20/1 ... -martyrdom

[JehovahsWitness]

Supernatural in the sense that the giant fish miraculously appeared on the scene to save Jonah from drowning in accordance with the will of a supernatural God. Furthermore, a fish which is large enough to swallow an entire human being would lack the internal anatomy to keep a person alive for 3 days. Therefore, if Jonah was swallowed by any fish large enough to accomplish that task, he would have drowned nonetheless.

The direction of the fish and to some extent the keeping of Jonah alive inside it, would biblically be described as miraculous. The fish itself wouldnt need to be "supernatural" (whatever that means). To illustrate, if Jesus was reported to have literally walked in water, it wouldn't have had to have been "supernatural water" just a miraculous event involving literal water. The story'of Jonah is reported as a miraculous event involving a literal fish.



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

FUN FISH FACTS

• Sharks belong to a group of fish known as the elasmobranchs, or cartilaginous fishes

• Most sharks are completely harmless

• Three of the largest sharks are the gentlest. The whale shark, the basking shark and the megamouth shark live off plankton

• The longest shark is the whale shark, which can grow to 50 feet long and weigh more than 40,000 pounds. They are usually gentle and get all their food by sifting small animals out of the water.

• These sharks swim holding their mouths open.

• Most sharks swallow their food whole

• An ancient shark called Carcharodon Megalodon (“rough tooth, big tooth”) had jaws were big enough to swallow an entire car. Some people believe this shark may still exist in deep water.

• Weird things been found in shark stomachs include the rear half of a horse

• A shark’s jaw is not attached to its cranium. Because its mouth is situated on the underside of its head, a shark can temporarily dislocate its jaw and jut it forward to take a bite.

• The world’s most unusual shark, the megamouth (Megachasma pelagios), wasn’t discovered until 1976. Its mouth can reach up to three feet across, while the rest of the body is about 16 feet long. Only 14 megamouths have ever been seen.

• More than 70% of the victims of Great White attacks survive because the shark realizes that it has caught a human and does not finish the meal.

• When a shark eats food that it can’t digest (like a turtle shell or tin can), it can vomit by thrusting its stomach out its mouth then pulling it back in.

• Many sharks are able to reverse their stomachs (turn them inside out) to dispose of undesired content.

source : http://facts.randomhistory.com/2009/03/11_sharks.html


INTERESTING FACTS ABOUT ANIMALS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE

Would Jesus have had a donkey [interesting facts]
viewtopic.php?p=1026563#p1026563

Interesting facts about SHARKS
viewtopic.php?p=1051627#p1051627

Interesting fact about DOVES
viewtopic.php?p=985382#p985382

Ten interesting facts about nightjars
viewtopic.php?p=1038507#p1038507

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

ANIMALS , BIRDS and ...THE EARTHLY PARSDISE

[bluegreenearth]

Supernatural in the sense that the giant fish miraculously appeared on the scene to save Jonah from drowning in accordance with the will of a supernatural God. Furthermore, a fish which is large enough to swallow an entire human being would lack the internal anatomy to keep a person alive for 3 days. Therefore, if Jonah was swallowed by any fish large enough to accomplish that task, he would have drowned nonetheless.

The direction of the fish and to some extent the keeping of Jonah alive inside it, would biblically be described as miraculous. The fish itself wouldnt need to be "supernatural" (whatever that means). To illustrate, if Jesus was reported to have literally walked in water, it wouldn't have had to have been "supernatural water" just a miraculous event involving literal water. The story'of Jonah is reported as a miraculous event involving a literal fish.



JW

You don't believe whales exist?

[nobspeople]

Never mind descriptions of sea life. Embellishments don't have to be separated from their source material by centuries; a mere handful of years will suffice:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/4/20/1 ... -martyrdom

Which is troubling in of itself. It's like the telephone game we played as a kid. Start off with one kid saying something and by the time if gets down the line to the 10th kid it's different - sometimes totally.
This is why, IMO, it takes faith to believe the bible. All the verbal passing down of information, then writing it down, then translating it, then editing it, then translating it... and on and on and on... and we 'know' what's written today is exactly what happened and or was said then?
Yeah, not common sense, logic or facts, but faith is what's needed to believe that.

[JehovahsWitness]

You don't believe whales exist?

Yes I do believe whales exist, although in the context of a discussion about the biblical Jonah it seems it was unlikely to have been a whale that is reported to have swallowed him.


JW

[bluegreenearth]

FUN FISH FACTS

• Sharks belong to a group of fish known as the elasmobranchs, or cartilaginous fishes

• Most sharks are completely harmless

• Three of the largest sharks are the gentlest. The whale shark, the basking shark and the megamouth shark live off plankton

• The longest shark is the whale shark, which can grow to 50 feet long and weigh more than 40,000 pounds. They are usually gentle and get all their food by sifting small animals out of the water.

• These sharks swim holding their mouths open.

• Most sharks swallow their food whole

• An ancient shark called Carcharodon Megalodon (“rough tooth, big tooth”) had jaws were big enough to swallow an entire car. Some people believe this shark may still exist in deep water.

• Weird things been found in shark stomachs include the rear half of a horse

• A shark’s jaw is not attached to its cranium. Because its mouth is situated on the underside of its head, a shark can temporarily dislocate its jaw and jut it forward to take a bite.

• The world’s most unusual shark, the megamouth (Megachasma pelagios), wasn’t discovered until 1976. Its mouth can reach up to three feet across, while the rest of the body is about 16 feet long. Only 14 megamouths have ever been seen.

• More than 70% of the victims of Great White attacks survive because the shark realizes that it has caught a human and does not finish the meal.

• When a shark eats food that it can’t digest (like a turtle shell or tin can), it can vomit by thrusting its stomach out its mouth then pulling it back in.

• Many sharks are able to reverse their stomachs (turn them inside out) to dispose of undesired content.

These types of demonstrable facts are only sufficient enough to serve as justifiable natural explanations for claims about people being swallowed by sea-monsters but then immediately ejected to survive the ordeal or subsequently drowned and eaten. There are no demonstrations of fish with the capability of keeping an entire human alive inside their mouths or stomachs for longer than a few minutes before drowning would occur. Even if a fish was demonstrated as being capable of keeping a swallowed man alive long enough to vomit him out on shore a day or three later, it wouldn't serve to justify the belief that a supernatural God employed such a fish in the ancient past to miraculously save man from drowning.

I suspect your intention here was to suggest that the existence of these demonstrable facts lend credibility to the fantastical claims recorded in the Bible. Unfortunately, the availability of this factual evidence only serves to undermine any credibility you might attribute to the Bible's supernatural claims because it demonstrates those ancient stories are better explained by natural causes rather than divine intervention. So, if the extraordinary story of Jonah can be better explained by a remarkable but natural occurrence of a survivable shark-attack in which the reported event was subsequently embellished for theological purposes, then it is reasonable to infer that the extraordinary story of people encountering a resurrected Jesus is better explained by a theologically embellished account of a remarkable but natural occurrence of one or two people mistakenly believing a Jewish apocalyptic preacher was resurrected.

[Miles]

You don't believe whales exist?

Yes I do believe whales exist, although in the context of a discussion about the biblical Jonah it seems it was unlikely to have been a whale that is reported to have swallowed him.

Well 25% (15) of the Bibles I looked at say it was a whale. For instance:

Matthew 12:40

KJ21
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

CEB
Just as Jonah was in the whale’s belly for three days and three nights , so the Human One will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

JUB
for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

NMB
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

.