Alright, Jehovah Exists - Why Worship Him?

[Purple Knight]

Let's assume the God of the Bible exists. Taking aside that he has named himself God, why is he God?

What makes an entity God?

And if this entity exists, why worship him?

[1213]

...
And if this entity exists, why worship him?

Bible tells about worshiping God:

Pure religion [religious worship] and undefiled before our God and Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
James 1:27

I would do that, because I think it is good.

James 1:17 (KJV)
"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

Inserting your own words into the text is misleading and the antithesis of reading what is actually there without introducing one's own biased interpretation. In context, there is nothing about worship in this passage.

I think it is good to notice, if someone adds own things, but the original word in the Bible is “threskeia”, which means:
1) religious worship
1a) esp. external, that which consists of ceremonies
1a1) religious discipline, religion

that is why the addition. But, what do you think religion means, if not religious worship?

[Purple Knight]

I assume you mean aside from being tortured if you don't? That's a pretty compelling reason to worship anything.

That's an empty bow, not really worship. I also don't think anyone gets into Heaven if they worship for this reason. God knows you're doing it for that reason, and you know he knows it. So if that's your reason, why bother?

Imagine a parent or teacher telling a child "I've got a really special treat for you, and if you clean up your room you'll get it, but if you don't clean your room you'll be punished" and then later saying "Oh dear, it's good that your room is clean but you didn't do it quite right; I wanted you to do it motivated by a desire for cleanliness not just to get the reward or avoid punishment. You're grounded!"

After a certain point, parents absolutely do that. Yes, little tiny children should just focus on doing the action. When you're a teenager or adult, motivation counts.

Love. I want to also say respect, but the word 'respect' seems inadequate. An awesome respect, an 'in awe of'... respect. Love, gratitude (deep deep gratitude), and 'in awe of' respect.

I would hope everyone is worshiping for this reason. But then I must ask, if a lightning bolt hit God and turned him mortal, if he was no longer omnipotent but just as good, wouldn't people, shouldn't people, still worship him?

[We_Are_VENOM]

Let's assume the God of the Bible exists.

No need to assume. The God of the Bible exists (for previously given reasons).

Taking aside that he has named himself God, why is he God?

I like Jehovah's Witness answer (for a change ), why is a black cat black? Well, based on the definition of what the color black is.

And it will get to the point where playing the "why" game becomes redundant...and it is what it is.

What makes an entity God?

Any traditional definition of God will work, although I will add "necessary" to the equation.

And if this entity exists, why worship him?

I can't answer this question in general, but I can answer it specifically as it pertains to me. I worship God because he gave me life, and he also gave me the things (and the ones) that I love...everything that I enjoy, he has provided the platform for me to enjoy those things.

I worship God because of his holy and beautiful character....the love he gives me, the mercy and grace that he shows me...he gives, gives and gives...every breath that I take is a gift.

Because of all these things and so much more, God deserves to be acknowledged, loved in return..and worshiped.

[Purple Knight]

I can't answer this question in general, but I can answer it specifically as it pertains to me. I worship God because he gave me life, and he also gave me the things (and the ones) that I love...everything that I enjoy, he has provided the platform for me to enjoy those things.

I worship God because of his holy and beautiful character....the love he gives me, the mercy and grace that he shows me...he gives, gives and gives...every breath that I take is a gift.

Because of all these things and so much more, God deserves to be acknowledged, loved in return..and worshiped.

So if Lucifer had created you instead, would you worship him instead?

Human beings have both good and evil in them. Sure, we may have been created by good and chosen to become evil, but explore for a moment, what if we were created by evil and chose to become good? Would it then be good to reject our creator and hate him instead of worshiping him?

This is only a what-if. I'm not suggesting Biblical canon supports it or even that anyone claims it. I'm just saying... what if?

[Dimmesdale]

So if Lucifer had created you instead, would you worship him instead?

Why would Lucifer create him, or me? It would be an ignoble motive. God's would be all-perfect.....

[Eloi]

How many ways are there to relate to a superior?

A father is obeyed while we are children, because he is an adult with more experience and knowledge, because he caused us life and supports us financially, and because he is the "strongest" member of a normal family.

A superior in the chain of command in the army is obeyed as a matter of order and discipline. Military superiors know matters that others in the chain do not know and in turn carry out orders from superiors to them, for the good of the nation and its interests. Similarly, in a workplace, the rules established by the business owners are respected and obeyed. If it is a private business, the owners were the creators, the ones who gave us a job, and we know that if we don't respect them, then they would fire us.

God created us in the first place. Not only that, he also prepared the earth before creating us so that we did not lack anything that would satisfy our needs. He also gave us gifts like colors and flavors ... things that we really didn't even need to survive as a species. He made us in his image by giving us awareness and appreciation for beauty. He still keeps the human race alive, because despite the disorder that some governments, institutions and prominent people of the world have caused throughout the planet, he continues to maintain the process that he created to sustain life on the planet. It is He who continues to maintain the stable atmosphere, breathable air, the earth producing food and liquid for us to drink and enjoy life. It was not men who invented air, food or water ... he was the Creator.

What should we do when we recognize that we were so magnificently created? The first thing that comes to mind is to be grateful and find a good way to prove it.

[We_Are_VENOM]

So if Lucifer had created you instead, would you worship him instead? Human beings have both good and evil in them. Sure, we may have been created by good and chosen to become evil, but explore for a moment, what if we were created by evil and chose to become good? Would it then be good to reject our creator and hate him instead of worshiping him?

Great question. It is difficult to answer, because if I was created by Lucifer, my whole worldview and sense of reality would be different...I would be a fundamentally different person, so that is a tough one.

But the short answer would be probably, yes.

That is why questions pertaining to morality is so tough because it seems as if morality is one of the most subjective concepts that there is to explore.

This is only a what-if. I'm not suggesting Biblical canon supports it or even that anyone claims it. I'm just saying... what if?

Yup. Tough. I am almost tempted to just say "the one with the gold makes the rules" and leaving it at that (God is the one with the gold, so he makes the rules).

Sort of a cop-out answer, but hey.

[brunumb]

God created us in the first place. Not only that, he also prepared the earth before creating us so that we did not lack anything that would satisfy our needs. He also gave us gifts like colors and flavors ... things that we really didn't even need to survive as a species.

My parents made me and out of the hundred or so ova my mother could have released and the millions of sperm cells my father released, I was the accidental and lucky result. No God necessary.

As for the earth, wow! God allegedly decided we should live on a thin, somewhat unstable crust floating on a giant ball of molten rock and iron. Most of the planet is unsuitable for human habitation and the environment regularly assault us in severe and catastrophic ways. Colours and flavours are really beneficial to our survival and we evolved to take advantage of those benefits. We gain enhanced identification of our environmental surrounds through colour vision and taste helps us distinguish between things that we have identified as either good or harmful to eat. Once again, no God necessary. The world looks precisely like we might expect from natural processes and nothing like we would expect if it was magically produced by a loving deity. That is probably why a being like Satan was invented to try and square up all the things that look decidedly wrong in a God-created world.

[nobspeople]

God created us in the first place. Not only that, he also prepared the earth before creating us so that we did not lack anything that would satisfy our needs. He also gave us gifts like colors and flavors ... things that we really didn't even need to survive as a species.

My parents made me and out of the hundred or so ova my mother could have released and the millions of sperm cells my father released, I was the accidental and lucky result. No God necessary.

As for the earth, wow! God allegedly decided we should live on a thin, somewhat unstable crust floating on a giant ball of molten rock and iron. Most of the planet is unsuitable for human habitation and the environment regularly assault us in severe and catastrophic ways. Colours and flavours are really beneficial to our survival and we evolved to take advantage of those benefits. We gain enhanced identification of our environmental surrounds through colour vision and taste helps us distinguish between things that we have identified as either good or harmful to eat. Once again, no God necessary. The world looks precisely like we might expect from natural processes and nothing like we would expect if it was magically produced by a loving deity. That is probably why a being like Satan was invented to try and square up all the things that look decidedly wrong in a God-created world.

I grew up being told a lot of similar things to what Eloi indicated:
predators and prey were 'friends' until 'the fall'
plants couldn't harm you until 'the fall'
any indigenous people were savages and only those who 'had god' weren't
pleasurable things like pleasing tastes and colors are simply 'gifts from god' and serve little to no 'real' purpose other than to glorify god
And on and on.

I never bought it, even through the long and frequent attempts of indoctrination, but that never stopped their attempts (and still doesn't, last I saw).

It's interesting how different people see the same thing differently; the human mind is truly 'neat' in how it copes with ideals and concepts, let alone creating them.

[Purple Knight]

So if Lucifer had created you instead, would you worship him instead?

Why would Lucifer create him, or me? It would be an ignoble motive. God's would be all-perfect.....

The motive for creating life doesn't have to be a good one. Some people breed animals they can't afford to maintain because of a need for companionship. But that's not saying an evil being can't be kind sometimes, or have a good motive for creating life.

Good is pure. Evil is inherently impure. If the Devil was always cruel, he couldn't lead a rebellion as his underlings would quickly grow to hate someone who was always cruel to them. He couldn't tempt people with things that provided pleasure, faced with a restriction that he never be nice to anyone for any reason.

I like to conceptualise it as good being the love of all, and evil being the love of some. If you didn't care about anyone, even yourself, I'm not sure that would qualify as being conscious enough to be good or evil.

How many ways are there to relate to a superior?

A father is obeyed while we are children, because he is an adult with more experience and knowledge, because he caused us life and supports us financially, and because he is the "strongest" member of a normal family.

So if Lucifer had created you instead, would you worship him instead?

Great question. It is difficult to answer, because if I was created by Lucifer, my whole worldview and sense of reality would be different...I would be a fundamentally different person, so that is a tough one.

But the short answer would be probably, yes.

Ten billion percent respect the honesty of this answer. I do have to admit I see more real introspection here (at least, I think; I'm not telepathic over the internet) from believers than I do from atheists.

The thing is, if morality is to be objective and not subjective, there has to be some way to rebel against a corrupt authority. If morality is objective, anyone might do wrong, and unless morality provides us with a way to assess that, Venom is right and it's totally subjective.

If morality is subjective, it's useless. There's no way to assess right and wrong if we have to throw up our hands and say that even though that fellow is engaged in murdering and raping a screaming victim, oh well, it's all subjective, so he might be doing the right thing. We may still stop him, but now we have no way to assess whether we should.

Story upon story, engraved into the collective breath of humanity, retells how someone throws off the chains of a corrupt authority, or even is wrongly forced to endure it. The good guys in Star Wars may fight against the Empire. Celie's father in The Colour Purple is wrong to rape her; authorities don't have to be right, even if they gave us life.

If we really all are Satan's children, I do believe we're still expected to reject Satan's authority. I do believe that's the point of free will as it's laid out in the Bible. If this wasn't the point, to be able to choose good over evil (or vice-versa), then I don't think there would be any perverse gratification to be had by creating us and watching in glee as we ignore the truth we were made with eyes to see and call evil good, simply because our Creator says so.