It's been said god can do anything. It's also been said god can do anything but what god can't do (examples given to me included: forcing people to do anything, break existing rules of nature to name a couple).
Simple question:
Can god do anything?
Why or why not?
Another way to ask the same question, is:
Does god limit its abilities?
Can god do anything?
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Re: Can god do anything?
Post #41If you are going to continue to insist that omnipotence includes the ability to do the logically impossible, then I ask that you address post 2. It points out that the logically impossible is not a “thing” to be done, but just nonsense that a person pretends has meaning because the words “God can” are in front of it.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:58 pm Additionally, I don't believe that there's much 'rational' about any belief, in general. So when someone tells me 'god can do anything' that means exactly that. Seems that making assumptions otherwise leads to confusion. In other words, if someone says 'god can do anything' why in the world would one need to think 'well, what they really mean is god can do anything but this or that'?! Seems that's more of making an excuse or caveat to met the listener's paradigm than what the person actually says.
Technically it is not an opinion since I am not providing a judgment about anything. It is a statement that, while unproven, is based on knowledge.nobspeople wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:58 pmUntil you can prove that, it's only an opinion. Which I thank you for.as pointed out in post 2, I am describing the dominant view in Christian history.
(To provide an example of the difference: "Ripe strawberries taste good" is an opinion. "Ripe strawberries are normally red," is a statement even though no proof has been provided.)
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Re: Can god do anything?
Post #42[Replying to bjs1 in post #41]
Additionally, if this god is a creator of all things, this means laws and rules which is has the ability to change at its whim.
I'm not saying I believe in such a being, but if said being is all powerful, all knowing and a creator of all things, this would mean it's limitless in actuality no matter what 'rules' humanity wishes to place upon it.
Logic is a human understanding of someTHING. That means what could be logical to god may not to a human simply because god (if is all knowing and all powerful and creator of all things) understands things humans can't.It points out that the logically impossible is not a “thing” to be done, but just nonsense that a person pretends has meaning because the words “God can” are in front of it.
Additionally, if this god is a creator of all things, this means laws and rules which is has the ability to change at its whim.
I'm not saying I believe in such a being, but if said being is all powerful, all knowing and a creator of all things, this would mean it's limitless in actuality no matter what 'rules' humanity wishes to place upon it.
So then I thank you for your statement.It is a statement that, while unproven, is based on knowledge.
Proof is available, even though you haven't shown it here. So the last sentence isn't exactly true and thus, an opinion of a perceived proof(To provide an example of the difference: "Ripe strawberries taste good" is an opinion. "Ripe strawberries are normally red," is a statement even though no proof has been provided.)
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Re: Can god do anything?
Post #43Okay, but this also means that something which seems illogical (not just irrational) to humans could also be illogical to God. Other than bias, what reason is there to think any specific set of nonsense should be sensible to God? Can God, “Run computer hold Waldo,” or any other random combination of words? Or is nonsense simply nonsense no matter who says it.nobspeople wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:16 pm [Replying to bjs1 in post #41]
Logic is a human understanding of someTHING. That means what could be logical to god may not to a human simply because god (if is all knowing and all powerful and creator of all things) understands things humans can't.It points out that the logically impossible is not a “thing” to be done, but just nonsense that a person pretends has meaning because the words “God can” are in front of it.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
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Re: Can god do anything?
Post #44Claiming god can do anything (even things we don't know about) seems rather nonsensical IMO.bjs1 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 amOkay, but this also means that something which seems illogical (not just irrational) to humans could also be illogical to God. Other than bias, what reason is there to think any specific set of nonsense should be sensible to God? Can God, “Run computer hold Waldo,” or any other random combination of words? Or is nonsense simply nonsense no matter who says it.nobspeople wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:16 pm [Replying to bjs1 in post #41]
Logic is a human understanding of someTHING. That means what could be logical to god may not to a human simply because god (if is all knowing and all powerful and creator of all things) understands things humans can't.It points out that the logically impossible is not a “thing” to be done, but just nonsense that a person pretends has meaning because the words “God can” are in front of it.
That being said, if god's all powerful, then it must not be held to human constructs of understanding, logic, rationale, thinking and on and on, when it comes to power.
Thus, if someone claims god is all powerful, then it must mean god can do the unthinkable: it can make a circle a square duck; it can make blue smell like a proton; it can make a rock soft and hard at the same time.
In other words, all powerful would surpass human understanding of what's possible, if it wants to do so.
Finally, it seems that it's your opinion that god can't do anything, is that correct?
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Re: Can god do anything?
Post #46What was said?
Is it verbatim, or simply paraphrased?
How do you KNOW (know not believe)?
Granted, if god is all powerful and all knowing and all-whatever, imperfect people can't know, much less understand, it. But that doesn't mean, as some may say, to blindly follow - especially since (some say) god gave humanity a thinking brain, capable of reasoning, independent thought and critical thinking.
Noticing the last 'fear' sentence in your quote... when all else fails, threat. Seems to be a good motivator for many.
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Re: Can god do anything?
Post #48If it works, use it! - says every mega-church leader from behind the driver's seat of his Bentley or sitting comfortably on his private jet.
It works for enough to fill the pockets of church leaders (how much is the pope's hat worth?) and control a fair amount of people, to varying degrees.
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Re: Can god do anything?
Post #49All we can do is explain why Hell makes no sense, and point to the UR Christians who don't buy it either and how the Bible doesn't actually validate the idea of Hell and let the Believers allow their moral sense (assuming that they still have one) tell them that it's Wrong, even if it may be effective. Though I suspect only if the ET people have control of education.nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:18 amIf it works, use it! - says every mega-church leader from behind the driver's seat of his Bentley or sitting comfortably on his private jet.
It works for enough to fill the pockets of church leaders (how much is the pope's hat worth?) and control a fair amount of people, to varying degrees.
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Re: Can god do anything?
Post #50The bolded section can be said about most, if not all, of the bible. Years could be spent discussing this. Unfortunately, it only matters to a few.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:27 pmAll we can do is explain why Hell makes no sense, and point to the UR Christians who don't buy it either and how the Bible doesn't actually validate the idea of Hell and let the Believers allow their moral sense (assuming that they still have one) tell them that it's Wrong, even if it may be effective. Though I suspect only if the ET people have control of education.nobspeople wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:18 amIf it works, use it! - says every mega-church leader from behind the driver's seat of his Bentley or sitting comfortably on his private jet.
It works for enough to fill the pockets of church leaders (how much is the pope's hat worth?) and control a fair amount of people, to varying degrees.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!