Can god do anything?

[nobspeople]

It's been said god can do anything. It's also been said god can do anything but what god can't do (examples given to me included: forcing people to do anything, break existing rules of nature to name a couple).

Simple question:
Can god do anything?
Why or why not?
Another way to ask the same question, is:
Does god limit its abilities?

[bjs1]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

God can do anything that can be done. This means that God’s limitation is that He cannot do something that is logically impossible.

God cannot create a square circle, or a married bachelor, or a father who is not a parent.

My favorite example of this is: God cannot beat me in chess once I have put Him in checkmate. He can obliterate me and the chess board, and erase the knowledge of chess as a concept from every mind in existence, but He can’t win that game of chess.

Concerning one of the examples in the first post, God cannot make a creature which has moral freedom and at the same time does not have moral freedom. So God can force a person to do something. However, God cannot force a person to do something and that person freely choose it.

Logically impossible actions are meaningless by nature. For instance creating a square circle is essentially gibberish. There is no coherent concept there. It is throwing a random set of words together and pretending that they make sense. It would be like asking God to “walk half hot” or any other string of random words. It is nonsense. Nonsense does not suddenly become meaningful by putting the words “God can” in front of it.



I will note that this is my own view, and from what I have read it has been the dominant view throughout Christian history, but it is not an essential belief to Christianity and there been Christians who were smarter than me who disagreed.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #2]

God can do anything that can be done. This means that God’s limitation is that He cannot do something that is logically impossible.

Why not? And by whose logic? Human's or god's?

God cannot create a square circle, or a married bachelor, or a father who is not a parent.

God created a man without a male father. Surely, if he can break that rule, he can break others, no? Can't god define its own terms? Definitions? Isn't god's understanding surpassing humanity's? If god can create the concept of a circle, surely he can amend that concept to make a circle not only a square, but an orangutan as well.

God cannot beat me in chess once I have put Him in checkmate.

This would assume, it seems, you could ever get god to that point without it being on god's own accord, which seems to negate the concept entirely. At least in this reality.

I will note that this is my own view, and from what I have read it has been the dominant view throughout Christian history, but it is not an essential belief to Christianity and there been Christians who were smarter than me who disagreed.

Thank you for responding and making that notation!

[1213]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

God can do anything that can be done. This means that God’s limitation is that He cannot do something that is logically impossible.

God cannot create a square circle,....

I can make a square circle, so I assume also God could do that and perhaps also other things that people think are impossible.

[Purple Knight]

Logically impossible actions are meaningless by nature. For instance creating a square circle is essentially gibberish. There is no coherent concept there.

Right, there is no action proposed so there is nothing to do, and nothing to not be able to do. It's just verbal flatulence.

I am also of the opinion that being unable to do something logically impossible does not describe a lack of capability. If it did, the concept of omnipotence would be nonsense by definition. And let's keep words in the realm of useful and logical when we can, rather than selecting definitions that render them meaningless or contradictory by nature, shall we? I call this word charity.

A good example of word charity in practice is that if there's a definition of free will that renders it either necessary or impossible by definition, I'll give both the proponents and detractors enough credit to assume they don't believe in what they think is flat illogical, and prefer definitions that give the most people that credit. We can't discuss the issue unless proponents and detractors share a definition anyway, and they aren't going to unless we select one that gives both sides the credit of not being crazy.

[bjs1]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

God can do anything that can be done. This means that God’s limitation is that He cannot do something that is logically impossible.

God cannot create a square circle,....

I can make a square circle, so I assume also God could do that and perhaps also other things that people think are impossible.

Okay, I'll bite. How do you make a square circle?

[bjs1]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #2]

God can do anything that can be done. This means that God’s limitation is that He cannot do something that is logically impossible.

Why not? And by whose logic? Human's or god's?

They are the same. Ways, reason, wisdom, etc. can be different. Logic is just logic.

God cannot create a square circle, or a married bachelor, or a father who is not a parent.

God created a man without a male father. Surely, if he can break that rule, he can break others, no?

It is logically possible for a man to exist without having a father. It might be empirically impossible, but it is not logically impossible.

Can't god define its own terms? Definitions? Isn't god's understanding surpassing humanity's? If god can create the concept of a circle, surely he can amend that concept to make a circle not only a square, but an orangutan as well.

Of course God can define His own terms. People can do that. We can call something whatever we want. We can call a shape with two sets of parallel lines and four right angles a circle if we want. Changing what we call it doesn’t change reality. God created the concept of a circle. He (or we) could call it something else. Whatever we call a “circle” it will still be a shape bounded by one curved line. If we straighten part of the line or add an angle then it ceases to be a circle.

God cannot beat me in chess once I have put Him in checkmate.

This would assume, it seems, you could ever get god to that point without it being on god's own accord, which seems to negate the concept entirely. At least in this reality.

Of course I could not beat God at chess without Him letting me. It would be empirically impossible, but not logically impossible. If God allowed me to put Him in checkmate then at that point it would be logically impossible for Him to win that game of chess.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #7]

They [logic] are the same. Ways, reason, wisdom, etc. can be different. Logic is just logic.

I don't know that's accurate. Can you show that to be true? Seems it's illogical to create paradise then allow temptation into it and then get upset when you creation does what you don't want it to do when you knew it would do just that.

It is logically possible for a man to exist without having a father. It might be empirically impossible, but it is not logically impossible.

God broke the 'logic' rule.

Of course God can define His own terms. People can do that.

For sure. People do it all the time on this very forum - using their own definitions, adhering to their own terms and what not. But ultimately, there's one term and or definition that's right, no matter which one a person may or may not elect to use. I can call a mouse and elephant, but that doesn't make it so.

If God allowed me to put Him in checkmate then at that point it would be logically impossible for Him to win that game of chess.

Not if he changed the rules, mid game. Which, being god, it's more than capable of doing, or it's not all powerful.

[Mattathias]

It's been said god can do anything. It's also been said god can do anything but what god can't do (examples given to me included: forcing people to do anything, break existing rules of nature to name a couple).

Simple question:
Can god do anything?
Why or why not?
Another way to ask the same question, is:
Does god limit its abilities?

A simple answer, Hebrews 6:18.

[Tcg]

A simple answer, Hebrews 6:18.

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