Can god do anything?

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nobspeople
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Can god do anything?

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

It's been said god can do anything. It's also been said god can do anything but what god can't do (examples given to me included: forcing people to do anything, break existing rules of nature to name a couple).

Simple question:
Can god do anything?
Why or why not?
Another way to ask the same question, is:
Does god limit its abilities?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

bjs1
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Re: Can god do anything?

Post #41

Post by bjs1 »

nobspeople wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:58 pm Additionally, I don't believe that there's much 'rational' about any belief, in general. So when someone tells me 'god can do anything' that means exactly that. Seems that making assumptions otherwise leads to confusion. In other words, if someone says 'god can do anything' why in the world would one need to think 'well, what they really mean is god can do anything but this or that'?! Seems that's more of making an excuse or caveat to met the listener's paradigm than what the person actually says.
If you are going to continue to insist that omnipotence includes the ability to do the logically impossible, then I ask that you address post 2. It points out that the logically impossible is not a “thing” to be done, but just nonsense that a person pretends has meaning because the words “God can” are in front of it.

nobspeople wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:58 pm
as pointed out in post 2, I am describing the dominant view in Christian history.
Until you can prove that, it's only an opinion. Which I thank you for.
Technically it is not an opinion since I am not providing a judgment about anything. It is a statement that, while unproven, is based on knowledge.

(To provide an example of the difference: "Ripe strawberries taste good" is an opinion. "Ripe strawberries are normally red," is a statement even though no proof has been provided.)
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

nobspeople
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Re: Can god do anything?

Post #42

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to bjs1 in post #41]
It points out that the logically impossible is not a “thing” to be done, but just nonsense that a person pretends has meaning because the words “God can” are in front of it.
Logic is a human understanding of someTHING. That means what could be logical to god may not to a human simply because god (if is all knowing and all powerful and creator of all things) understands things humans can't.
Additionally, if this god is a creator of all things, this means laws and rules which is has the ability to change at its whim.
I'm not saying I believe in such a being, but if said being is all powerful, all knowing and a creator of all things, this would mean it's limitless in actuality no matter what 'rules' humanity wishes to place upon it.
It is a statement that, while unproven, is based on knowledge.
So then I thank you for your statement.
(To provide an example of the difference: "Ripe strawberries taste good" is an opinion. "Ripe strawberries are normally red," is a statement even though no proof has been provided.)
Proof is available, even though you haven't shown it here. So the last sentence isn't exactly true and thus, an opinion of a perceived proof ;)
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

bjs1
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Re: Can god do anything?

Post #43

Post by bjs1 »

nobspeople wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:16 pm [Replying to bjs1 in post #41]
It points out that the logically impossible is not a “thing” to be done, but just nonsense that a person pretends has meaning because the words “God can” are in front of it.
Logic is a human understanding of someTHING. That means what could be logical to god may not to a human simply because god (if is all knowing and all powerful and creator of all things) understands things humans can't.
Okay, but this also means that something which seems illogical (not just irrational) to humans could also be illogical to God. Other than bias, what reason is there to think any specific set of nonsense should be sensible to God? Can God, “Run computer hold Waldo,” or any other random combination of words? Or is nonsense simply nonsense no matter who says it.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
-Charles Darwin

nobspeople
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Re: Can god do anything?

Post #44

Post by nobspeople »

bjs1 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:28 am
nobspeople wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:16 pm [Replying to bjs1 in post #41]
It points out that the logically impossible is not a “thing” to be done, but just nonsense that a person pretends has meaning because the words “God can” are in front of it.
Logic is a human understanding of someTHING. That means what could be logical to god may not to a human simply because god (if is all knowing and all powerful and creator of all things) understands things humans can't.
Okay, but this also means that something which seems illogical (not just irrational) to humans could also be illogical to God. Other than bias, what reason is there to think any specific set of nonsense should be sensible to God? Can God, “Run computer hold Waldo,” or any other random combination of words? Or is nonsense simply nonsense no matter who says it.
Claiming god can do anything (even things we don't know about) seems rather nonsensical IMO.
That being said, if god's all powerful, then it must not be held to human constructs of understanding, logic, rationale, thinking and on and on, when it comes to power.
Thus, if someone claims god is all powerful, then it must mean god can do the unthinkable: it can make a circle a square duck; it can make blue smell like a proton; it can make a rock soft and hard at the same time.
In other words, all powerful would surpass human understanding of what's possible, if it wants to do so.

Finally, it seems that it's your opinion that god can't do anything, is that correct?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

Avoice
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Re: Can god do anything?

Post #45

Post by Avoice »

Ha!

People thinking they know what God can and can't do. Just focus on what he said at Sinai. Or you'll find out what he can do

nobspeople
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Re: Can god do anything?

Post #46

Post by nobspeople »

Avoice wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:45 am Ha!

People thinking they know what God can and can't do. Just focus on what he said at Sinai. Or you'll find out what he can do
What was said?
Is it verbatim, or simply paraphrased?
How do you KNOW (know not believe)?

Granted, if god is all powerful and all knowing and all-whatever, imperfect people can't know, much less understand, it. But that doesn't mean, as some may say, to blindly follow - especially since (some say) god gave humanity a thinking brain, capable of reasoning, independent thought and critical thinking.

Noticing the last 'fear' sentence in your quote... when all else fails, threat. Seems to be a good motivator for many.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Can god do anything?

Post #47

Post by TRANSPONDER »

:D Good ol' Hellthreat...you can't beat it.

nobspeople
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Re: Can god do anything?

Post #48

Post by nobspeople »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:23 am :D Good ol' Hellthreat...you can't beat it.
If it works, use it! - says every mega-church leader from behind the driver's seat of his Bentley or sitting comfortably on his private jet.
It works for enough to fill the pockets of church leaders (how much is the pope's hat worth?) and control a fair amount of people, to varying degrees.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Can god do anything?

Post #49

Post by TRANSPONDER »

nobspeople wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:18 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:23 am :D Good ol' Hellthreat...you can't beat it.
If it works, use it! - says every mega-church leader from behind the driver's seat of his Bentley or sitting comfortably on his private jet.
It works for enough to fill the pockets of church leaders (how much is the pope's hat worth?) and control a fair amount of people, to varying degrees.
All we can do is explain why Hell makes no sense, and point to the UR Christians who don't buy it either and how the Bible doesn't actually validate the idea of Hell and let the Believers allow their moral sense (assuming that they still have one) tell them that it's Wrong, even if it may be effective. Though I suspect only if the ET people have control of education.

nobspeople
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Re: Can god do anything?

Post #50

Post by nobspeople »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:27 pm
nobspeople wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:18 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:23 am :D Good ol' Hellthreat...you can't beat it.
If it works, use it! - says every mega-church leader from behind the driver's seat of his Bentley or sitting comfortably on his private jet.
It works for enough to fill the pockets of church leaders (how much is the pope's hat worth?) and control a fair amount of people, to varying degrees.
All we can do is explain why Hell makes no sense, and point to the UR Christians who don't buy it either and how the Bible doesn't actually validate the idea of Hell and let the Believers allow their moral sense (assuming that they still have one) tell them that it's Wrong, even if it may be effective. Though I suspect only if the ET people have control of education.
The bolded section can be said about most, if not all, of the bible. Years could be spent discussing this. Unfortunately, it only matters to a few.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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