The annexation of 3

[nobspeople]

In an effort not to hijack another thread, I started this one, as I haven't seen it on this forum prior.


I'm constantly struck with the representation of "3" in the bible:
Johan, in the fish for 3 days
Some say jesus was in the tomb for 3 days (though others say more like 2½?)
3 people being crucified
3 wise men
mmeshach, shadrach and abednego (3 dudes)
The teaching (though not all believe in) the trinity (s holy parts)

Even outside the bible, 3 seems to be paramount in many cultures and beliefs, symbolizing, often times, harmony, wisdom and understanding, as well as past, present and future.

For discussion:
Is the significance to 3 something that started from the bible, or did the bible annex it into its own culture?
If the bible did annex 3 into its culture, what else did it absorb?
And if there are other things it absorbed, how can it be trusted to be the word of (or inspired by) god?

[TRANSPONDER]

I'm rather struck by the annexation of 7. Three is an inherently significant number from Celtic lore to Asia (or so I'd predict). I suspect that we have here a human psychological instinct preferring the assurance of Three. It strikes me that three witnesses is better than two - they could have cooked up a story. One of the rhetorical tricks I learned in the early days of apologetics was the rule of three.

You can declaim something like 'contradictions are the Bible's refutation', and end you speech on that, leaving it hanging. Even 'Contradictions are the Bible's refutation and disproof', but still leaves the end of the speech hanging.

But 'Contradictions are the Bible's refutation, disproof and demise' and they'll be on their feet. Though perhaps not at a Christian fundamentalist conference.

[Difflugia]

It's tough to say if it's the case for three because it's such an easy coincidence, but most of the Bible's numerology appears to be based on Babylonian astronomy ("Babylonian Number Systems and the Origin of the Calendar"). 5, 7, 12, and multiples were particularly Babylonian and they're the reason we now have a seven-day week, 12-hour clock cycle, and 360° circle.

"Twelve tribes" has a distinctly Babylonian feel to it, especially since it doesn't look like it's original or based in reality. Note that the lists in Genesis 49 and Numbers 1 arrive at the count of twelve tribes by different means. Genesis 49 adds the tribe of Levi, despite it not having a territory. Numbers 1 omits Levi, but splits Joseph into two tribes, Ephraim and Manasseh.

[Miles]

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I always thought 40 must have been somehow special.

Forty represents a generation or a full period of time.

During the Big Flood it rained for 40 days and 40 nights.

David ruled over all of Israel for 40 years.

God told Jonah that In 40 days Nineveh would be destroyed

Solomon ruled over all of Israel for 40 years.

Joash ruled in Jerusalem for 40 years.

God declared that Egypt's destroyed cities would lie empty for 40 years

God told told Ezekial to lie on his right side for 40 days.

God sent Elijah on a journey that lasted 40 days and 40 nights.

When Hazael went to see Elisha he took 40 camels with him as a gift.

When Abraham pleaded to god to save Sodom, god said he would save it if 40 godly people could be found

Isaac was 40 years old when he married Rebekah.

Esau was 40 years old when he married Judith

It took doctors 40 days to prepare Israel, the father of Joseph, for burial

Moses was associated with 40 several times:

....... he was 40-years-old when he was exiled from Egypt,

....... he returned 40 years later to lead the Hebrews out of captivity,

....... he spent 40 days atop Mount Sinai,

....... he spent 40 years with the Hebrews wandering in the desert, and so forth.

After god provided Othniel to save Israel the land was at peace for 40 years.

Goliath challenged the Israelites for 40 days before David killed him

Abdon, who led Israel and was the son of Hillel, had 40 sons (yeah sure)

Eli led Israel for 40 years.

More than 40 men took part in a plan to kill Paul

Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert for 40 days.

and Jesus remained in Jerusalem and Galilee for 40 days before his ascension.




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[nobspeople]

So it seems, thus far, that there's more than '3' being a number of interest in the bible. There seems to be a sense of numerology at work here.

Many christians I've spoken to are quick to dismiss numerology as 'the devil' and the like. Is this something that's typical within christianity, or is it more localized in 'pockets' of the population, do you think?

[Difflugia]

Many christians I've spoken to are quick to dismiss numerology as 'the devil' and the like. Is this something that's typical within christianity, or is it more localized in 'pockets' of the population, do you think?

I think it depends on what you mean. If you mean actively denouncing numerology as satanic or something, that means that one first has to believe that there's something supernatural behind it. That limits us to either the kinds of Christians that see the working of demons in mundane things.

Most Christians I know that deny that the Bible contains recognizable numerology only do so because numerology sounds silly. It's groups like Pentecostals that imagine demons out there trying to give them a bad day that would frame numerology as more than a cheap horoscope.

As it is, the numerology of the Bible is more symbolic than anything. The bigger issue generally is difficulty acknowledging that the Bible authors borrowed their numerical symbology from other cultures rather than vice versa, because that would mean that God's seven-day week is the result of Babylonian Moon worship instead of being ordained by the original and only God during the literal week of creation.

[nobspeople]

Many christians I've spoken to are quick to dismiss numerology as 'the devil' and the like. Is this something that's typical within christianity, or is it more localized in 'pockets' of the population, do you think?

I think it depends on what you mean. If you mean actively denouncing numerology as satanic or something, that means that one first has to believe that there's something supernatural behind it. That limits us to either the kinds of Christians that see the working of demons in mundane things.

Most Christians I know that deny that the Bible contains recognizable numerology only do so because numerology sounds silly. It's groups like Pentecostals that imagine demons out there trying to give them a bad day that would frame numerology as more than a cheap horoscope.

As it is, the numerology of the Bible is more symbolic than anything. The bigger issue generally is difficulty acknowledging that the Bible authors borrowed their numerical symbology from other cultures rather than vice versa, because that would mean that God's seven-day week is the result of Babylonian Moon worship instead of being ordained by the original and only God during the literal week of creation.

Thanks for the response.
From my experience with certain christians, they believe things like numerology, astrology, psychics and the like are 'of the devil'. Granted, might not be christianity in general (nor am I making that claim), but yeah....