Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

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Tcg
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Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #1

Post by Tcg »

.
Some argue that sexual abuse takes place in many organizations and that we shouldn't expect Christian organizations to be any different. Recent evidence, however, reveals that one specific Christian organization has the worst record for sexual abuse of children outside of only the "circle of family and friends."
More than 200,000 children sexually abused by French Catholic clergy, landmark report finds

Presenting the findings of the investigation on Tuesday, Sauvé said children were more likely to be abused within Catholic Church settings than in state-run schools or in summer camps -- or in any setting other than the family.

"The Catholic Church is, after the circle of family and friends, the environment where the prevalence of abuses is the highest by a significant margin," Sauvé told a news conference.

The problem was systemic, and the sexual violence was not limited to "a few black sheep that strayed from the flock," Sauvé told CNN ahead of the report's publication. "When it was informed of abuses, [the Church] did not take the strict measures necessary to protect children from predators."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/05/europe/f ... index.html
Of course we know that the Catholic church is not the only Christian organization where both sexual abuse of children and its systematic cover-up have taken place. Both the JWs and Southern Baptists have been in the news lately with reports of both.

If the claim that Christianity leads to more moral living is true, should we expect this finding?

Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?


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Re: Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #11

Post by 1213 »

TRANSPONDER wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:03 am ...
....'"Even a Bad Man can serve God's purposes" which is akin to the 'It's part of God's plan, so even the bad is good" excuse. Which in the end is simply the fingers in the ears argument, but there we are.
I think it is very bad, if some Christians think it is ok to do bad, because God could turn it so that it has eventually some good outcome. I really don’t know why even call them Christians, when they are not loyal to Jesus and the Biblical teachings.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
3 John 1:11

Maybe their goal is that:

“the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles ...,”
Romans 2:24

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Re: Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #12

Post by nobspeople »

There seems to be, at least, two problems here:
1) that it happened in any way, shape or form, &
2) that it was covered up.

How can anyone that's without mental issue still support a church that allows this to happen AND THEN, covers it up. Not for 6 months. A year. Or three years. But going back to around 1950!

It's vile.
Not only should catholics 'excommunicate themselves (or whatever special catholic term they have for such thing - make one up if there's not one as that's what you tend to do)', but god should eliminate the church itself. God's done more than that for less.

I've always said anyone that purposefully harms an animal or child, should be removed from the human race. Take that for what you will...
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #13

Post by Purple Knight »

Tcg wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:35 amShould we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?
No, but we should force them to. Religiosos need to fix the problem they have with sexual abuse of children, and I argue their mentality of meekness makes it worse. They try to be sheep. Is it any wonder that they attract wolves? Jesus is turning in his non-grave. Religious people should be taking a page from Jesus's book and letting the meek inherit the churches before they inherit the Earth. They need to fix their faith problem. Their leaders aren't God - they're just very, very ambitious people who probably aren't even religious and see an opportunity.

If religious people can't fix the problems they have with child sexual abuse, then children shouldn't be allowed to go to church. They can watch the livestreams or talk to pastors on live chat, no physical interactions. If we found out any other type of organisation was dangerous to children we would age-restrict access to protect them. Church should be no different.

I feel the same way about the Boy Scouts just fyi and they're not really religious. They just have one merit badge you need to be religious to obtain. I feel the exact same way. If they can't fix their problem they can change their structure (which would be really hard for them, moreso than churches) or they should be disbanded.

Monetary settlements disgust me. Instead, the organisation should be served with warnings when proof of abuse is absolute, and if they can't get it together, disbandment. I don't think government should put cameras on priests or boy scout troop leaders, but if the organisations can't solve their problems without that, and they aren't doing it voluntarily on their last warning, they're going to be shut down, and needless to say if you're caught abusing children, you shouldn't be allowed to work with children again. If I had my way they'd be neutered, provided the proof was absolute.

I'm more permissive toward cults than most. I think people should be able to say whatever they want. I don't think the fact that people are convinced to join kooky religions is anybody's business, as long as they can leave. But when organisations cross the line and stop saying things, and start doing things, such as abusing animals or children, no. It shouldn't be allowed.

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Re: Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #14

Post by Miles »

1213 wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:54 pm
TRANSPONDER wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:03 am ...
....'"Even a Bad Man can serve God's purposes" which is akin to the 'It's part of God's plan, so even the bad is good" excuse. Which in the end is simply the fingers in the ears argument, but there we are.
I think it is very bad, if some Christians think it is ok to do bad, because God could turn it so that it has eventually some good outcome. I really don’t know why even call them Christians, when they are not loyal to Jesus and the Biblical teachings.
Should we assume then that the good Christian should:

Kill practicing male homosexuals?

Biblical teaching:
Leviticus 20:13
"If a man has sexual relations with another man as with a woman, they have committed a terrible sin. They must be put to death. "


And kill all mediums and wizards?

Biblical teaching:
Leviticus 20:27
“27 “A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard must be put to death. The people must kill them with stones.


And agree that its just fine to own other human beings?

Biblical teaching:
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.


And how about disallowing men from going to church because of a physical deformity?

Biblical teaching:
Deuteronomy 23:1
“If a man’s testicles are crushed or his penis cut off, he shall not enter the sanctuary.


.

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Re: Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #15

Post by bjs1 »

[Replying to Tcg in post #1]

Of course we should expect better. I am a little surprised how sever the abuse was in France. Based on this article, the abuse rate among priests in France was roughly six times higher than the abuse rate among priests in America.

Perhaps this speaks to the effectiveness of mandating reporting laws. Once those laws were passed in America in the early 1970’s the abuse rate plummeted. Perhaps it was a lack of these laws that allowed a culture of abuse to persist longer in France.
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Re: Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #16

Post by brunumb »

Tcg wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:40 am Exactly. It is clear that these organizations are in fact encouraging child sexual abuse by protecting the abusers in their ranks. This is the exact opposite of what we should see especially when they are presented as the leaders of Christian morality.
There are times when I wonder if some of these religious organisations have not evolved into havens for sexual abusers and pedophiles. There are too many horrible stories surfacing every day. With so much secrecy, particularly within the hierarchy, it's certainly an environment that could foster such practices. The rank and file members may just be innocent and blind victims of what is really going on behind closed doors.
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Re: Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #17

Post by 1213 »

Miles wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:08 pm Should we assume then that the good Christian should:
Before doing anything, it would be good to read the whole book, not just parts that atheists seem to like. Otherwise one might make bad mistake and kill someone even though he is not allowed to do so.

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Re: Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #18

Post by benchwarmer »

1213 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:32 pm
Miles wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:08 pm Should we assume then that the good Christian should:
Before doing anything, it would be good to read the whole book, not just parts that atheists seem to like. Otherwise one might make bad mistake and kill someone even though he is not allowed to do so.
Ironically, you seem to have that backwards. The parts mentioned by Miles are the parts Christians seem to NOT like. They disregard/ignore those parts (while often cherry picking other ideas from the exact same documents the 'disallowed' stuff is in).

Atheists generally have no like or dislike about the Bible. At least not this atheist. I simply point out all the issues and then watch apologists attempt to tap dance around them - often in different directions.

1213, do you have a method to determine which parts of the Bible are applicable and which ones aren't? Simply reading the entire Bible isn't going to cut it.

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Re: Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #19

Post by Diagoras »

bjs1 wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:30 pm [Replying to Tcg in post #1]

Of course we should expect better. I am a little surprised how sever the abuse was in France. Based on this article, the abuse rate among priests in France was roughly six times higher than the abuse rate among priests in America.

Perhaps this speaks to the effectiveness of mandating reporting laws. Once those laws were passed in America in the early 1970’s the abuse rate plummeted. Perhaps it was a lack of these laws that allowed a culture of abuse to persist longer in France.
Thanks for bringing that perspective. Do you have a cite for that decrease in abuse rates? (I'm not disputing the facts, just curious about the actual numbers).

I don't know much about mandating reporting laws except that they apply to any adult in a position of working with children (so not specific to churches). Is there something about religious organisations that differs from any other environment where children are potentially at risk of abuse? And did the decrease in abuse rates also apply to those non-religious organisations - i.e. was the decline at the same percentage rate?

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Re: Should we expect a Christian organization to protect children better than this?

Post #20

Post by brunumb »

1213 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:32 pm
Miles wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:08 pm Should we assume then that the good Christian should:
Before doing anything, it would be good to read the whole book, not just parts that atheists seem to like. Otherwise one might make bad mistake and kill someone even though he is not allowed to do so.
So, if the one part of the Bible directs you to kill homosexuals, how does reading the whole book change that? If there is another part that you can somehow use as a loophole to get you out of carrying out that command, then why is it there at all?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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