Omniscient the right term or does there need to be another?

[nobspeople]

In a recent, 'hot topic', otseng said: "I have no problem with God being omniscient, the only thing I've mentioned is God not being omnipotent." and can be seen here if interested (or you somehow missed it)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38657&start=120

Notice the bolded section.
Otseng believes, by their own admission, god isn't all powerful. They outline their reasoning based on at least one specific biblical passages about god not being able to lie, but they say it's, basically, 'OK with them' that god is all knowing.

But the bible does seem to indicate god isn't all knowing as well. Or does it?
From the genesis story:
[3:9] But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" - this seems to indicate god didn't know where Adam was - why else would be call to the man? Surely, he could have just went to where he'd know Adam was?
[3:11] He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"
Again, surely god would know. It could be he wanted Adam to admit it, as god does seem to play games with humanity throughout the bible and seems to love riddles (see here: https://www.gotquestions.org/riddles-in-the-Bible.html). This would be much akin to the 'god doesn't need us to tithe, we need to tithe' reasoning (lucky for god's ledger it seems!).
[3:13] Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" See above reasoning and potential response.
Genesis 3:15 and the following few verses seem to indicate god was angry (or at least annoyed) and kicked them out of the garden.

Now if god is omniscient, this means knowing everything, past, present and future. He would have know where everyone was, what they did, why they did it (and that they would do it), and on and on. There's literally no legitimate need to ask questions when you know the answers. I don't see any reason why Adam or Eve, literally being with god, they'd think 'Well, he won't know we ate it! We'll just act like everything copasetic!"
Some would counter that 'parents do this to their children'. But the whole god/parent comparison isn't legitimate as parents aren't god in any way. Comparing parents and god are like comparing apples to an apple tree.

This is a very amateur look at the 'all knowing' issue, for sure. But when one uses the bible and quotes to create their own paradigm, it's quite easy to do.

Now then, it's quite possible that god is knows all, except for what it chooses not to know. If that's the case, then the term omniscient isn't apt at all.

For discussion: Is the omniscient term completely correct when describing god, or should there be another term to use? Or is it simply god isn't all knowing?

[1213]

..."Where are you?" - this seems to indicate god didn't know where Adam was - ... ...There's literally no legitimate need to ask questions when you know the answers... Is the omniscient term completely correct when describing god, or should there be another term to use? Or is it simply god isn't all knowing?

Is that also what you said to your teachers in the school?

I don't think asking questions means always that person doesn't know the answer. And the way the Bible story is told implies to me that God knew the answers, he just wanted the people to answer the questions. If you think there was no legitimate reason, I don't think it is good reason to think God could not have had, after all, you and God are not exactly at the same level in knowledge and wisdom.

I believe God is all knowing and also all powerful, He can do whatever He wants. I believe He could even lie, but He just don't want to do so, because He knows it is not right.

[Miles]

Unless god turns off his omniscience from time to time, or he isn't all that bright, considering the mistakes he's made it's exceedingly doubtful he's omniscient. (He would know that what he was about to do is wrong.)


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[TRANSPONDER]

I think we all get what Omnipotence means. It just needs the clarification that it is not reasonable to to say that God is not omnipotent because He can't do the logically impossible. The basis is that if God made everything, he can make anything in the universe thereafter. He can still storms and move mountains (given the reasonable point that he won't do it if it's going to kill people who live on it). It's reasonable to argue that, if he repented doing the Flood, he could put it all back the way it was before the flood and find a different way. In fact, after Adam fell he could have gone back to before Eden and seen the fall didn't happen. After all, he only needed to put barbed wire around the tree.

But there, I'm touching on omniscience and the doctrinal claim of knowing everything that would go down before He even stared creating, and that's a different subject.

[nobspeople]

Unless god turns off his omniscience from time to time, or he isn't all that bright, considering the mistakes he's made it's exceedingly doubtful he's omniscient. (He would know that what he was about to do is wrong.)


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If this god isn't all knowing, does that (or would that), IYO, lessen this god from what many claim it is (all knowing)? In other words, if this god isn't all knowing, is it worth being worshipped at all?

[JehovahsWitness]

From the genesis story:
[3:9] But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" - this seems to indicate god didn't know where Adam was - why else would be call to the man?

Possibly because He wanted Adam to come forward rather than be "outed".



A more reasonable reading of the Genesis narrative is of a God that was giving Adam the opportunity to come forward and freely confess ; thus showing his (Adams) recognition of the need to submit to divine justice rather than flee in a vain attempt to escape being held accountable for his actions.


RELATED POSTS

Why did Adam and Eve become ashamed of their nudity?
viewtopic.php?p=997976#p997976

Whose fault was it Adam and Eve grew ashamed of their own naked bodies?
viewtopic.php?p=1019568#p1019568

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

ORIGINAL SIN , PERFECTION , and ...THE RANSOM

[nobspeople]

From the genesis story:
[3:9] But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" - this seems to indicate god didn't know where Adam was - why else would be call to the man?

Possibly because He wanted Adam to come forward rather than be "outed".



A more reasonable reading of the Genesis narrative is of a God that was giving Adam the opportunity to come forward and freely confess ; thus showing his (Adams) recognition of the need to submit to divine justice rather than flee in a vain attempt to escape being held accountable for his actions.


RELATED POSTS

Why did Adam and Eve become ashamed of their nudity?
viewtopic.php?p=997976#p997976

Whose fault was it Adam and Eve grew ashamed of their own naked bodies?
viewtopic.php?p=1019568#p1019568

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

ORIGINAL SIN , PERFECTION , and ...THE RANSOM

Anything's possibility in the realm of 'what ifs'. But escape where? The garden is all Adam knew that existed as there's nothing to indicate he knew otherwise. There was no 'safe house' for them to flee and seek refuge.
God could have went directly to him.
It seems rather 'human' that god would ask where Adam is and expect Adam to 'come to him'. Unless, of course, Adam was simply god's pet.

And this doesn't touch on the whole 'god had to know what was going to happen' if god is all knowing. Unless we want to change omniscient to...semiscient...?

[William]

For discussion: Is the omniscient term completely correct when describing god, or should there be another term to use? Or is it simply god isn't all knowing?

It is complex.

It may be that the key ingredient is re the God breath [spirit] which went into the creation [human form] thereby giving that form life.

The nature of the form itself inhibits the abilities of the spirit aminating it and was obviously designed for that purpose.

When the spirit in the form bent to the forms will [fear of consequence of action] the God became angry because it was expected of the spirit in the form to have the form bend to its will, not the other way around.

The expectation - maybe - can be regarded as fair enough.

The problem now being, that the flesh [form] drove the spirit, rather than the spirit driving the form.

Thus, Cain murders Able, because the flesh of Cain dictated the terms of the spirit of Cain's behavior and was evidently seen by the God in regard to the more acceptable offering of Able - not because of the offering itself, but rather, because of the hidden but known attitude of the one doing the offering, by the God.

The God wants the individuate spirit to act accordingly - as in - "as God would act" thus Biblical Jesus advising those who would, to 'be perfect as The Father is Perfect.

[Miles]

Unless god turns off his omniscience from time to time, or he isn't all that bright, considering the mistakes he's made it's exceedingly doubtful he's omniscient. (He would know that what he was about to do is wrong.)


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If this god isn't all knowing, does that (or would that), IYO, lessen this god from what many claim it is (all knowing)? In other words, if this god isn't all knowing, is it worth being worshipped at all?

Not in my book. Heck, even if he was all knowing that still wouldn't be reason enough. In fact, short of holding a gun to my head I don't know what it would take to justify worshiping anyone or thing.


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[bjs1]

[Replying to Miles in post #3]

I'm not sure that I understand your meaning. Perhaps you could expand on this a little more.