What's jesus's primary message?

[nobspeople]

One a different thread, ostend said:

At the risk of proposing another heresy, I don't believe the primary message Jesus preached was to get people saved so they can enter the celestial heaven after they die. Yes, it's important, who wants to go to hell? But, it was not Jesus's primary message.

Who wants to go to hell? Indeed. Likely no one 'wants to', which is one reason christianity is as successful as it is: fear of hell (throw in guilt and you have a winner, baby!).

That aside, it's taught jesus came to earth (god became man and other malarkey that not every one believes) to be a sacrifice for mankind. Sacrifice for what? Their sins, it seems. This would, again, seem to open a pathway to heaven.
But, if, as osteng believes, that's not jesus's primary message, what was it?
Was it successful?
I don't know of anything else he did, aside from starting a religion which, successful as it may seem when counting heads in pews, it's not difficult to do as the testament of the myriad of other religions that existed before and after his lifetime.

[1213]

...
But, if, as osteng believes, that's not jesus's primary message, what was it?
Was it successful?....

I think his primary message was to declare sins forgiven.

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, Because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim release to the captives, Recovering of sight to the blind, To deliver those who are crushed, And to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Luke 4:18-19
But he said to them, "I must preach the good news of the Kingdom of God to the other cities also. For this reason I have been sent."
Luke 4:43
For God didn't send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.
John 3:17

I think that includes many important sub messages, like what is righteousness.

[Tcg]

One a different thread, ostend said:

At the risk of proposing another heresy, I don't believe the primary message Jesus preached was to get people saved so they can enter the celestial heaven after they die. Yes, it's important, who wants to go to hell? But, it was not Jesus's primary message.

Who wants to go to hell? Indeed. Likely no one 'wants to', which is one reason christianity is as successful as it is: fear of hell (throw in guilt and you have a winner, baby!).

That aside, it's taught jesus came to earth (god became man and other malarkey that not every one believes) to be a sacrifice for mankind. Sacrifice for what? Their sins, it seems. This would, again, seem to open a pathway to heaven.
But, if, as osteng believes, that's not jesus's primary message, what was it?
Was it successful?
I don't know of anything else he did, aside from starting a religion which, successful as it may seem when counting heads in pews, it's not difficult to do as the testament of the myriad of other religions that existed before and after his lifetime.

Some claim that this passage from gospel Luke represents his primary message:

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, since he also is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Jesus is referring to Zacchaeus here. Note that he is referred to as "a son of Abraham", in other words, a Jew. Jesus came specifically to save the Jews.

Later in the same chapter we find this:

Luke 19:26 ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’

One has to wonder why this shouldn't be considered Jesus' primary message.

I am not convinced that the Jesus we read of in the gospels intended to start a new religion. It seems to me that his goal was to reform Judaism. It wasn't until after that failed that his followers, and particularly Paul and those who wrote using his name, decided to create a new religion. Up from the ashes of failure so to speak.


Tcg

[Tcg]

I think his primary message was to declare sins forgiven.

Odd that none of the verses you've presented to support your claim contain either the word "sins" or "forgiven."

I think that includes many important sub messages, like what is righteousness.

The word "righteousness" is also absent from the verses you've provided.


Tcg

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Tcg in post #3]

Thanks for the response. To note: I have 'no dog in this fight', simply curious to one's opinion.

Some claim that this passage from gospel Luke represents his primary message:

'Some' claim a lot of things. What gets told and believed are, many times, different. Who's right? It seems, in many ways, it's the majority in hind sight.

Jesus came specifically to save the Jews.

Then those non-jews are OOL!

One has to wonder why this shouldn't be considered Jesus' primary message.

Maybe because, on its own, it makes little to no sense?

I am not convinced that the Jesus we read of in the gospels intended to start a new religion.

Maybe not, but here we are.

particularly Paul and those who wrote using his name, decided to create a new religion.

Zealots tend to do that it seems

Jesus is referring to Zacchaeus here (Luke 19:9 ). Note that he is referred to as "a son of Abraham", in other words, a Jew.

How do you know this? To whom was jesus speaking? Many claim jesus was a son of a jew and a god (but again, 'many claim') so who is right? Both? None?

I've found taking one or two sentences from the bible and making an entire belief out of them, oft leads to discourse, angry splits within the sect, dangerous end beliefs... even family splits.

To the unbeliever, these splits and arguments and discourse within religion is often good and entertaining. Oft times, it's encouraged!

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #3]

Thanks for the response. To note: I have 'no dog in this fight', simply curious to one's opinion.

Some claim that this passage from gospel Luke represents his primary message:

'Some' claim a lot of things. What gets told and believed are, many times, different. Who's right? It seems, in many ways, it's the majority in hind sight.

Jesus came specifically to save the Jews.

Then those non-jews are OOL!

One has to wonder why this shouldn't be considered Jesus' primary message.

Maybe because, on its own, it makes little to no sense?

It makes perfect sense in the context of the passage.

I am not convinced that the Jesus we read of in the gospels intended to start a new religion.

Maybe not, but here we are.

particularly Paul and those who wrote using his name, decided to create a new religion.

Zealots tend to do that it seems

Jesus is referring to Zacchaeus here (Luke 19:9 ). Note that he is referred to as "a son of Abraham", in other words, a Jew.

How do you know this?

By reading the passage in context. When one does so they find this:

Luke 19:8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

To whom was jesus speaking?

I just answered that.

Many claim jesus was a son of a jew and a god (but again, 'many claim') so who is right? Both? None?


I've found taking one or two sentences from the bible and making an entire belief out of them, oft leads to discourse, angry splits within the sect, dangerous end beliefs... even family splits.

I read the whole passage, but it's a bit cumbersome to quote the whole chapter.

To the unbeliever, these splits and arguments and discourse within religion is often good and entertaining. Oft times, it's encouraged!

I have no idea what this is referring to.


Tcg

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Tcg in post #6]

It makes perfect sense in the context of the passage

Perhaps but I didn't see the whole passage/chapter

I read the whole passage, but it's a bit cumbersome to quote the whole chapter....I have no idea what this ("To the unbeliever, these splits and arguments and discourse within religion is often good and entertaining. Oft times, it's encouraged!") is referring to.

Often times, one person (or persons) creates a group of believers or thought from a certain sentence, or one passage, creating a whole idea from it (aka without context).
When this happens, many times it causes arguing amongst believers, much to the delight of unbelievers (aka 'enjoyable to watch').

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #6]

It makes perfect sense in the context of the passage

Perhaps but I didn't see the whole passage/chapter

The Bible in it's entirety can be found from a number of sources on the internet. Here's one qued up to the passage in question:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ESV

I read the whole passage, but it's a bit cumbersome to quote the whole chapter....I have no idea what this ("To the unbeliever, these splits and arguments and discourse within religion is often good and entertaining. Oft times, it's encouraged!") is referring to.

Often times, one person (or persons) creates a group of believers or thought from a certain sentence, or one passage, creating a whole idea from it (aka without context).
When this happens, many times it causes arguing amongst believers, much to the delight of unbelievers (aka 'enjoyable to watch').

How do unbelievers "encourage" this activity amongst believers? Why do you think unbelievers find it "enjoyable to watch?"


Tcg

[nobspeople]

[Replying to Tcg in post #8]

1) How do unbelievers "encourage" this activity amongst believers? 2) Why do you think unbelievers find it "enjoyable to watch?"

1) Stoking the fires of discourse and the like
2) Many reasons are likely. After all, a house divided and all of that...

Thanks for providing the passage. I read it again (good to refresh my memory I guess?). I don't see it saying what you say it's saying. Can you elaborate on your claim?

[Tcg]

[Replying to Tcg in post #8]

1) How do unbelievers "encourage" this activity amongst believers? 2) Why do you think unbelievers find it "enjoyable to watch?"

1) Stoking the fires of discourse and the like
2) Many reasons are likely. After all, a house divided and all of that...

How do you envision unbelievers "stoking the fires of discourse" among believers?

Which reasons can you provide evidence of?

Thanks for providing the passage. I read it again (good to refresh my memory I guess?). I don't see it saying what you say it's saying. Can you elaborate on your claim?

Even after reading it you aren't convinced Jesus was talking to Zacchaeus?


Tcg